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Re: New comer - Progress (edit)

Posted: Fri Sep 06, 2019 17:18
by richardw
Found this regarding the legality of LED headlights which seems to say they should only be fitted (a) with headlamp washers and (b) with remote headlamp adjustment:

The law on aftermarket HID and LED lighting in the UK, in detail, with links and references

ECE Regulations 48 and 98 are the ones which apply to HID headlights, and 48 is the one which deals specifically with how HID headlights must be fitted to be legal.
Headlight washers and automatic levelling

Part 6.2.9. "Other requirements" says: "Dipped-beam headlamps with a light source or LED module(s) producing the principal dipped beam and having a total objective luminous flux which exceeds 2,000 lumen shall only be installed in conjunction with the installation of headlamp cleaning device(s) according to Regulation No. 45.”

Part 6.2.6.2.2 says "... devices which are adjusted manually, either continuously or non-continuously, shall be permitted, provided they have a stop position at which the lamps can be returned to the initial inclination defined in paragraph 6.2.6.1.1. by means of the usual adjusting screws or similar means. These manually adjustable devices shall be operable from the driver's seat."

However, part 6.2.9. says “With respect to vertical inclination the provisions of paragraph 6.2.6.2.2. above shall not be applied for dipped-beam headlamps:

(a) With LED module(s) producing the principal dipped beam; or

(b) With a light source producing the principal dipped beam and having an objective luminous flux which exceeds 2,000 lumen."

So, these laws say you must have washers and automatic levelling only if the light source is more than 2,000 lumens total output, or the light is produced by LEDs (of any brightness), according to (b), above.

But, it's worth pointing out that it’s not possible to measure the total light output accurately at the roadside, or in the MOT station - a light meter can only measure intensity of light at one point, and this rule applies to total light output.

Therefore, as long as you have a manually-operated light levelling system - e.g. a little adjuster wheel on the dashboard - this also seems to be acceptable according to the wording above, unless of course somebody goes to the trouble of having your lights' output measured to test whether they put out more than 2,000 lumens.


The full link is at https://greyhead.co.uk/other-things/are ... ncps5vewv0

Re: New comer - Progress (edit)

Posted: Fri Sep 06, 2019 18:28
by Hawaiis0
Interesting but possibly mis-direction as it is for NEW car approvals only and gererally HID gaseous light too. Still reading for a LED rule.

Quote from DfT

This is because they comply with European type approval regulations. The UK cannot refuse to register a vehicle with a European type approval. These approvals relate to ECE Regulation 98 (for the HID headlamps which are tested on a rig in a laboratory) and ECE Regulation 48 (lighting installation on the vehicle). For the aftermarket, a used vehicle cannot obtain type approval because this only applies to new vehicles.

Retrofitted system and the VOSA MOT

Quote regarding test manual (awaiting comment from resident Examiner) :)

A vehicle may be rejected if the tester finds "a headlamp levelling or cleaning device inoperative or otherwise obviously defective.” (rejection reason 2).

No mention is made of “missing” systems, so it’s acceptable to have no headlamp washers or automatic beam levelling.

Re: New comer - Progress (edit)

Posted: Fri Sep 06, 2019 18:30
by Hawaiis0
Just to cover the wording definition of 'MAY' above:

'expressing possibility'

Therefore not mandatory.

Re: New comer - Progress (edit)

Posted: Fri Sep 06, 2019 22:07
by Alan_M
Mine has passed at least 3 MOTs with LED lights fitted. I have no idea of the total lumens, but they certainly ain’t as stuuupidly, blindingly bright as the ones on Audis that burn the back of your retinas !!

I believe one of the reasons for the washer systems for HID is that dirt on the lens will scatter the light beam so not giving a defined cut off on low beam with potential to dazzle. As our lights remain protected from dirt most of the time, this will be much less of a problem for our pop ups.

Re: New comer - Progress (edit)

Posted: Fri Sep 06, 2019 22:23
by Hawaiis0
Alan_M wrote:Mine has passed at least 3 MOTs with LED lights fitted. ...
Which ones did you fit Alan?

Re: New comer - Progress (edit)

Posted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 13:11
by richardw
Hawaiis0 wrote:Interesting but possibly mis-direction as it is for NEW car approvals only and gererally HID gaseous light too. Still reading for a LED rule.
Don't think so, this is specifically for aftermarket lights - as I read it, HIDs with >2000 lumens and all LEDs:

"The law on aftermarket HID and LED lighting in the UK, in detail, with links and references"

Let's wait for our resident MOT tester!

Richard

Re: New comer - Progress (edit)

Posted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 21:09
by Alan_M
Hawaiis0 wrote:
Alan_M wrote:Mine has passed at least 3 MOTs with LED lights fitted. ...
Which ones did you fit Alan?
Sorry, don’t know - they were already on the car when I bought it.

Re: New comer - Progress (edit)

Posted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 20:40
by Hawaiis0
Well I fitted one light unit the other day as a test as they only sent one. Not very impressed. The second one arrived today so I fitted it and I found it was much better than the other . Really good white light illumination on dipped and sparkling on main.

I got a duffer with the first one as it seems they had made it upside down.

Re: New comer - Progress (edit)

Posted: Sun Oct 06, 2019 20:22
by Hawaiis0
Update on the night vision with the new LED headlights.

Main first then dipped

Image

Image

Re: New comer - Progress (edit)

Posted: Sun Oct 06, 2019 22:18
by Pete Boole
Now that looks impressive! Any probs with glare to oncoming drivers? The dipped beam cutoff looks really sharp.

Pete

Re: New comer - Progress (edit)

Posted: Sun Oct 06, 2019 22:30
by Hawaiis0
Pete Boole wrote:Now that looks impressive! Any probs with glare to oncoming drivers? The dipped beam cutoff looks really sharp.

Pete
So far I have had no indications of glare to on coming vehicles. I have set them a short distance when on dipped as shown

Re: New comer - Progress (edit)

Posted: Mon Oct 07, 2019 08:23
by Lotus-e-Clan
Would have been useful if you'd been able to take a before and after picture on the same road/location.

It seems to me that the dipped LED picture shows the offside grass verge lit a little TOO well. The offside cut-off point would be more obvious for normal bulbs....ie normal dipped beams are skewed to the left (nearside).and the offside grass verge would be more poorly lit.

OK, it could be that you are on a very narrow road, but to ensure you don't really dazzle oncoming traffic, the dipped beam pattern should show more of a nearside skew.

Like so (see quick and dirty computer sketch below :lol: ) ....
Image

Re: New comer - Progress (edit)

Posted: Mon Oct 07, 2019 09:29
by bash
Its David Hockney !!! Can I have your autograph.... on an original.

Bash

Re: New comer - Progress (edit)

Posted: Mon Oct 07, 2019 09:56
by DavidOliver
Youve´drawn the bonnet louvres in the wrong place, disaster.

Dave the cog.

Re: New comer - Progress (edit)

Posted: Mon Oct 07, 2019 10:38
by Lotus-e-Clan
bash wrote:Its David Hockney !!! Can I have your autograph.... on an original.

Bash
Ha! I wish! :lol:
DavidOliver wrote:Youve´drawn the bonnet louvres in the wrong place, disaster.

Dave the cog.
Yes that's annoying me too now you've spotted it! :(