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LEAKS - Explain this if you can!!!!

Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2020 20:39
by MetBlue
I've been suffering with my car doing a good impression of a rain gauge recently.
One small shower and I can measure the depths of the puddles inside in inches!!! . The water was collecting in two places - near side foot well, just under seat front edge and off side, behind drivers seat, in front of rear seat.
After various investigations and removing carpets and sound deadening, I realised the near side lake was coming from the centre tunnel front area. Then the penny dropped - the wiper wheel box was moving in the body (250 miles to Norfolk recently in the rain obviously didn't help).
So it's now tight and sealed and..... result.... No longer puddles in the near side foot well.

But much to my surprise, the water feature being the driver seat has largely gone also!! !!! How can this be? The carpet in front of the drivers seat has always been dry, and as far as I can tell, there's a ridge in the floor pan beneath the drivers seat separating front well from rear well. How on earth can water get from the wiper wheel box to the rear foot well without soaking everything between????

I would add my drive points up hill, so the front wheels are about 9 " above the rears when parked, but it doesn't slope left to right.

Any thoughts????

Tony

Re: Explain this if you can!!!!

Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2020 22:32
by Pete Boole
It'll be them there capillaries!

Pete

Re: Explain this if you can!!!!

Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2020 23:52
by Lotus-e-Clan
Pete Boole wrote:
Mon Dec 21, 2020 22:32
It'll be them there capillaries!

Pete
Yeah maybe racking along/under the center console trim?

Re: Water water everywhere - Explain this if you can!!!!

Posted: Thu Dec 24, 2020 18:55
by MetBlue
It's been a bit damp here recently (master of understatements!!!) 🌧️🌧️🌧️
And yes, the O/S rear is still filling up nicely🛁.
Removed drivers seat this afternoon and lifted the rear foam backed Rubber floor insulation. My... its amazing just how much water a small piece can absorb.
The evidence would suggest that some of the water was tracking along the wiring loom by the inner sill to find its way from the front to the rear . But I'm still surprised it can have stayed so dry in the front!!!
So, just need a drop more rain now to be able to see what fills up first. Got a feeling I won't need to wait too long!!!
Tony

Re: Explain this if you can!!!!

Posted: Thu Dec 24, 2020 22:57
by Hawaiis0
I had water coming in via door seal capillary action. Used some sealant on the seal and all is good

Re: Explain this if you can!!!!

Posted: Thu Dec 24, 2020 23:49
by Alan_M
I know how much water that insulation can hold from first hand experience :shock:

To track my leaks I dusted the inside floor and sills with talc so could see the tracks left from the water. Mine were door seal to window frame, door seals at sills and also door hinge bolt.

Re: LEAKS - Explain this if you can!!!!

Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2021 22:38
by MetBlue
Seems I still have a problem:
Image
You can just about make out the edge of the puddle (dark red).
There was no real evidence about where the water runs in from. Definitely not via the centre tunnel, but feeling inside the rear quarter trim ( just visible), it felt damp, so 15 minutes later, another significant sized trim piece was out of the car ( Appears highly unlikely this rear quarter panel has ever been out before, as the B post line was bonded to the leather / cloth trim that runs up the door post - and that is bonded to the door aperture !).
Anyway, it's now all out and the good news I suppose is that the inside area was very dry and dusty, with a very secure bond of the rear quarter window, so all good there.

What was obvious though, was that the leather strip that runs up the door aperture B post (is trapped under the door seal) was completely sodden all the way up to the window line. so off that came also. Oh - and the door seal, which was silicon bonded to the door lip for good measure.
It's now pretty clear that this leak is the result of water getting past the door seal. I don't think it is the seal to door leaking. I believe, despite the door seal being siliconed to the body, the water was still getting inside the seal "U". then finding a route out on the inside lip of the door aperture.

One job leads to another though, cos now the cloth trim on B post above window line has disintegrated ( so that's probably going black leather for the time being) and with so much of the trim now in the garage, it seems daft to put it back in to the car before giving it a good leather feed and recolour.

It's a good job it's winter and we're in lock down. Just thinking I should have SORNed the car for a couple of months.
This car will be in more bits than the Elite soon :roll: :roll: :roll:

Tony

Re: LEAKS - Explain this if you can!!!!

Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2021 22:45
by Hawaiis0
You need to change your signature...

What comes apart - stays apart :D :D :D :D :D :lol:

Re: LEAKS - Explain this if you can!!!!

Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2021 22:57
by MetBlue
Nice One. :D :D :D

Re: LEAKS - Explain this if you can!!!!

Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2021 07:15
by Pete Boole
That's exactly how the water was getting into my Excel - re-bedded the door seal and it was cured.

Pete

Re: LEAKS - Explain this if you can!!!!

Posted: Mon May 24, 2021 23:37
by MetBlue
Update on leak paths and conclusions for my car.
As posted previously, door seals were a major leak path for water into the car. It wasn't gaps between the seal and the door, but water getting into the U channel, then draining into the car. It was using the leather as a pathway, having soaked the leather completely, it just acted as a sponge and tracked the water straight into the rear foot well.
As soon as I'd removed the leather from the B post and along the door sill, the leaks stopped! Even with the old door seal just lightly pressed over the door reveal, water was no longer entering the car at this point.

Door seals : Now there's another story. Seal looked in pretty good condition and although the U was opened up in places, it responded to being closed, then gripped tightly to the fibreglass reveal. But the seal was the "closed loop type" with a sealed mitred corner for the top of B post. Issue is that when fitting properly and the U channel tapped fully into the aperture with a hide mallet, the seal length was around 25 mm too short !! You could only get the top corner fully seated, if you leave the U only partially engaged, particularly down the A post and around the corners.

So I decided to buy the seal by the metre, choosing to experiment with the Larger O section sold via Woolies. It is a good deal larger, as can be seem in this photo.

Image

I can report it fits perfectly, creates a great seal both to the web in the door reveal and the rubber to the door when closed. You need to be VERY careful when hammering onto the web to ensure it fully seats, especially around the corners ( I made a radius-ed wooden dolly to help) and also to ensure it doesn't push back the leather rather than gripping over it. Fortunately though, it's easy to see when its sitting well.
The top mitred corner is the other challenge. I used a slit disk in a Dremel to cut the 45 degree through the steel U section and a new razor blade to go through the rubber. The contact adhesive I used to fit the new roof lining and trim does a good job of bonding the Rubber together in the corner.

Image

I still have a minor leak coming from the passenger side bulk head, but that will need to wait for next winter now when I'm planning on removing the dash for some other works.

In summary then, I started with the car shipping water faster than the Titanic, now even in the biblical storms we've had through May, I'd say I'm drawing in less than 5% of the volumes experienced at it's worst.
My estimates of the blame for each area:
* Wiper spindle = 30% - Shows as water in the front foot wells.
* Drivers door seal = 40% - 3/4 was showing in the rear off side foot well, 1/4 in the front foot well.
* Passenger door seal = 25% - virtually all ending up in the rear foot well
* 5% - Unresolved - for another day.

Tony

Re: LEAKS - Explain this if you can!!!!

Posted: Tue May 25, 2021 07:27
by Lotus-e-Clan
Really useful findings! 8)

Re: LEAKS - Explain this if you can!!!!

Posted: Tue May 25, 2021 18:09
by Pete Boole
Excellent! I also found the ready-mitred seals too short when I had my Excel. So the duck's been evicted then? :lol:

Pete

Re: LEAKS - Explain this if you can!!!!

Posted: Wed May 26, 2021 07:59
by MetBlue
. So the duck's been evicted then? :lol:
He's been furloughed......chances are his services will be required again in the future. 😩😩. Just hope not too soon 🤞🤞

Re: LEAKS - Explain this if you can!!!!

Posted: Fri May 28, 2021 21:58
by TrevorK
Good progress then, Tony. Just in time for some dry weather which will allow you to get the interior fully dry.

Which seal did you get from Woolies? Was it the large bead door seal, part no. 266A and what length did you get for each side?