123

[Pjr]

Its always nerveracking to buy a classic car and within a month or two put her in for an MOT. But Im very happy because I have just had the car examined today and she passed without issue. There was an observation that a front lwr balljoint rubber was beginning to show signs of deterioration, but that was it and the tester noted that she was "immaculate". What a way to end the week!

Anyway, back on the matter in hand, i have emailed 123ignition with the Lucas vacuum module details and they emailed straight back with the following proposed MAP curve:

0......0
20.....0
21.....12
80.....12
96.....0
100....0
200....0

I forgot to ask about the rpm start figure so that remains for now on the default setting of 1500rpm.

Looking at the live data at motorway cruise part throttle, i can see more advance in certain conditions and the engine feels smoother and more powerful so it seems that they have suggested a good curve. I must say, their customer support seems to be very personal and quick which i really appreciate.

I cant claim that this does as much as the crank sensor systems, but for under £300 i would certainly recommend it as a really beneficial upgrade. Its easy to fit, easy to play with and it transforms the car.

[Tanz]

I'm considering getting the 123 ignition - Pete put the idea in my head at the NEC

One query - One the normal ignition, the vacuum temperature control valve advances the ignition to 30+ degrees when the engine is cold to help with cold running.
The 123 tune + Bluetooth doesn't have a vacuum connection as far as I can see. I guess you can't programme the vacuum advance with a relation to temperature so how are users getting on with cold running if they have a 123?

https://www.123ignitionshop.com/gb/

[Alan_M]

I'm considering getting the 123 ignition - Pete put the idea in my head at the NEC

One query - One the normal ignition, the vacuum temperature control valve advances the ignition to 30+ degrees when the engine is cold to help with cold running.
The 123 tune + Bluetooth doesn't have a vacuum connection as far as I can see. I guess you can't programme the vacuum advance with a relation to temperature so how are users getting on with cold running if they have a 123?

https://www.123ignitionshop.com/gb/

My 123+ has a vac advance module and the vac advance curve is programmable and if look at the info on the website it states it has programmable vac advance - look at item 14 in FAQs - https://www.123ignitionshop.com/gb/faqs ... ragen.html

[Tanz]

Thanks for the reply Alan.
I know the vacuum advice is programable but surly that's the vacuum advance during normal running and is relative to engine speed? The extra feature on the Excel is the temperature valve that increases the advance when the engine is cold to aid cold running . I can't see how you can programme the 123 to advance to 30+ degrees when the engine is cold and then reduce when the engine warms up. If you can then that's great. I notice on the app, when you get the gauges on the screen, there is a temperature gauge so maybe you can?

[Alan_M]

It works the same way with the original and 123 for the vac advance. On the standard distributor there’s nothing in the distributor that changes with temperature, it just responds to the amount of vacuum. Where the vacuum comes from is dependant on the engine temp and controlled by the valve, either from in front or behind the butterfly. This is what increases the vacuum sent to the distributor and hence the amount of advance, so this will work the same with the 123. You just program the 123 to give the same advance/vacuum curve as the original vac unit.

[Alan_M]

Ps. Do not use the vac curve posted by PJR above it’s not a good one. My car was Pjr’s. It was not running correctly when I bought it for several reasons, one of which was the vacuum set up on the 123. I can share the current curve with you, but not for a little bit as it’s undergoing a bit of work at the moment.

[Lotus-e-Clan]

Thanks for the reply Alan.
I know the vacuum advice is programable but surly that's the vacuum advance during normal running and is relative to engine speed? The extra feature on the Excel is the temperature valve that increases the advance when the engine is cold to aid cold running . I can't see how you can programme the 123 to advance to 30+ degrees when the engine is cold and then reduce when the engine warms up. If you can then that's great. I notice on the app, when you get the gauges on the screen, there is a temperature gauge so maybe you can?

The thermal ignition valve in the inlet manifold water jacket, applies maximum vacuum from the inlet manifold (unrestricted vacuum at idle) to the std dizzy capsule when cold. When hot, the TIV supplies vacuum from the throttle edge port (restricted vacuum at idle). So if you plumb the 123 dizzy vacuum tube input (assuming it has one!) in the same way as a std dizzy, the 123 dizzy vacuum input port (assuming it has one!) will see high vacuum when cold and low vacuum when warm, same as a std dizzy.

I don't know anything about the 123 dizzy vacuum arrangement, or its programme, so please ignore this post if it doesn't have a vacuum input port!

[Tanz]

Ok I've found a better picture and there is a vacuum connection so guess it will work the same way for cold start/ running
https://123ignition.com/

[MetBlue]

Been giving these a bit of thought.
With strobe connected, I get occasional dancing of the timed position. Steady enough to set the 'nominal' but then I get occasional flashes much nearer TDC.
Thinking that with 150k miles, that's around 150 million turns of the dizzy. Not too surprising if things are getting a bit worn. !!!!
If I understand the 123 web site correctly, there's now 3 options.
One at around £330 that looks to have 16 preprogrammed curves. A turn pot on the dizzy, but impossible to tell if it would be accessible once installed.
One at around £400 that is programmable, but not Bluetooth. Think a cable might also be needed for this one that's not cheap. Called 'Tune'
Then the Bluetooth one at around £450 - ouch. Called 'Tune +'.
Anyone got experience of anything other than the Bluetooth variant?

Tony

[Alan_M]

.

One at around £400 that is programmable, but not Bluetooth. Think a cable might also be needed for this one that's not cheap. Called 'Tune'

Anyone got experience of anything other than the Bluetooth variant?

Tony

Only have experience of the Bluetooth one.
But, I believe the cable is just a shielded USB cable.

[MetBlue]

I've found another unit similar to the 123.
CSI Ignition, also a Netherlands outfit.
Same 3 options of a unit with 16 pre programmed curves, a laptop connected and a Bluetooth version. Unfortunately in the same price range though.. Pretty sure the company has been born from defectors from 123.
It's USP is that it looks very much like the original equipment dizzy, including the vac advance unit. Mini, MG, Triumphs and Austin Healey forums have many reports comparing it to 123. They obviously like it for it's close to Std looks. Not found out yet if the vac unit is just for looks and there's a transducer inside. I assume this is the case, but not certain.
The Bluetooth unit can carry 2 curves with switching between and there's also a timer between rev points in the App. Both features I think unique to the CSI and could be useful for finding the best curves.
The 16 pre programmed unit would be difficult for our cars. You access the turn pot by removing the dizzy cap !! Easy on a Mini. Pain on a 9xx.
Still not sure I'll go either way yet though. Starting has got better now I've improved carb settings and these units are a heck of a price. Can't help but think the money may be better invested elsewhere.
Tony