New member - Excel SA

[richardw]

Great work Neil!

The plan for the crossmember would be even better if you modify it so you could jack the car up without damaging it. I have found that it is difficult to find a place to lift the front of the car, and many cars have been damaged by people who don’t understand the relative fragility of the crossmember.

Cheers, and hope you had a good Christmas and best wishes for 2021,

Richard

[Lotus-e-Clan]

Despite my attachment to the 900 series Lotus engine within its historic context (I wouldn't/couldn't change mine), I do very much admire properly engineered alternative installations and this looks like it's going to be a properly engineered solution.

Toyota connection too!

[Excel SA]

Thanks Richard - best wishes to you too!

The cross-member has been used as a jacking point, and the bottom plate would need some panel beating to get it flat again - I don't think it's parallel to the ground either, so any jacking will start by pushing on one side first.....the trick is to make it all strong and useable enough without turning it into a tank!

Thanks Peter, trying to do things the right way so that it doesn't look like a bit of "add on" job, but there's a long list of things to do still to get the engine in and connected up.

Neil.

[DavidOliver]

I am sure that damaged crossmembers are as a result of people trying to jack the front---and failing, and just leaving the damage.
I doubt you can create a crossmember strong enough for normal running without maintaining the original depth,
even with thicker steel.
While on the subject, where is the towing point on the chassis, somewhere around the anti-roll bar? Still not convinced.

Dave the cog.

[Pete Boole]

ISTR "Nickp1" on TLF (who is fitting a Toyota V8 into his Eclat) has modified his front crossmember as well - take a look at the "Loxus Eclat V8" thread.

Happy new year!

Pete

[bash]

I took a few dimensions (ballpark) that I kept in my rover V8 conversion build book, thought they might come in useful to you.

Bash

[Excel SA]

Thanks all.

Dave, I'm adding in extra material along with the original - I'm pretty sure it will make it stronger, but at a cost - complexity and weight. It would be pretty tricky to pull out any damage from jacking, there are holes in the bottom of the cross member for drainage and/or to let the galvanising in??? Jacking in the center of that beam is not a good idea at all I don't think.

I haven't seen a towing point anywhere on my car - nor noticed any on the drawings, although I haven't really looked for it.

Thanks Pete - have been through his build thread - he cut out more of his cross member than I have - yes - the deed is done.... Engine and gearbox are still tricky to get in, and need to get better at doing it before I have to do it re-painted. The bonnet almost closes, just the oil filler cap in the way now, will need to get the filler neck shortened as it's very long. I have some engine to fiberglass connection points that will need some fettling - the back two exhaust manifold studs as well as a power-steering pump outlet.

All drawings and dimensions are useful - thanks Bash - will also be trying out your suggested Land Rover engine mounts - I am going to have to minimise engine movement in all planes as clearances are all very tight.

Thanks for the feedback and ideas - it all helps to get things thought about!

Neil.

[Excel SA]

Radiator

I am hoping to keep the stock radiator as it seems to be in fairly good condition (and Bash used his without a problem!), however the plumbing to the Lexus engine, if done as "standard" makes it a bit of a mess as the pipes would need to cross each other and one a 180 degree "U" turn.

The pictures below show the inflow into the engine (blue arrow) which is on the drivers side and facing towards the top fitting of the right of the radiator - which would normally be fed from the bottom of the radiator - on the passenger side of the Lotus. The outflow from the Lexus (red arrow) is on the passenger side, at the same height as the inflow and pretty much points towards the front of the car.





The top picture shows that the radiator sits lower than both the coolant inlet and outlet from the Lexus.

The question is - would it really make much difference if the flow through the radiator was from the bottom to the top rather than the norm of top to bottom?

Some research shows that one of the main reasons for feeding the water pump from the bottom of the radiator is to ensure it gets water through it if the water level is low, but I expect this becomes a moot point in this case as the radiator is lower than the water pump input anyway?

Have I missed anything?

Neil.

[MetBlue]

From a purely logical point of view, I'd agree with your interpretation it should make no difference.
Given a choice, I'd pump water in from the bottom, that way you're pushing against gravity, but can't immediately see any problems with pumping it "down hill", especially if the whole of the rad is below both inlet and outlet to/from the engine.

I may be missing something though, so interested to see how this discussion develops.
Tony

[Lotus-e-Clan]

What I'm about to suggest is an expensive option but you gain installation flexibility, programmable cooling and a little more torque (not that you need it!).

I'd disconnect the std water pump (also remove the internal impeller if you can) and fit a Davis Craig EWP - probably an EWP 150 litre/min or whatever matches your engine's output. You then fit a shorter v belt omitting the std water pump pulley.

That way you could run the bottom hose over to the drivers side alongside the bottom of the radiator, fit the EWP low down on the drivers side and output the pump to the std Lexus inlet on that side. The top hose then runs to the top rad stub as normal.

I'd prefer to keep hot water entering the the top of the rad as the cool water sinks naturally ..and the cool air likes to be at the lower end of the stream any how.

[Pete Boole]

From my own experience with electric coolant pumps on my V8 I'd stick with the standard set-up! I wouldn't want to pump downhill - against the natural convection. Anyway there is no need - just run an aluminium pipe of suitable diameter from the bottom rad outlet to the opposite side of the rad and then up to the engine inlet. You'll just end up with an extra litre of coolant, but no hose crossing! Where are you going to return the cool side of the heater matrix inside the car to?

Pete

[Excel SA]

Thanks for the replies so far!

Sorry Peter K - I'm not keen on the extra work of your plan! Too many other things to do.....the water pump is pretty much out of the way - in other words it wouldn't be a fun thing to ever change. I also need all available spare space for an air filter and intake, remote oil filter (somewhere where changing it will be possible without leaving an oil slick behind), air-con drier and a windscreen washer bottle and and all of their pipework. Am hoping to get the ECU to stretch as far as the passenger footwell so as not to have to find space for that and the fuses and relays attached to it in the engine bay.

Is the amount/force of the convection in the radiator ever going to be something the pump would even notice? I have really no idea, but can't picture it my mind as something much to fight the water pump!

There are pipes at the back for the engine for the heater - an in and an out - also on the "wrong" side, and the heater valve has to move a bit, so more to do there.

The header tank also has an extra outlet that has nowhere to go, and I expect I need an air bleed of some sort out of the engine - this is all starting to hurt my brain!

The nice people at Toyota did provide this diagram:



Neil.

[Pete Boole]

From that diagram it looks like the original radiator isn't a cross-flow design (unless it's "artistic license" at play). The Lotus rad is a cross-flow design so the water flows across the width of the rad, not from top to bottom. Maybe that will make it easier to pump "against" the flow? The coolest water will always be at the bottom of the rad though! How about getting a local repair shop to move the inlet/outlet ports on the rad?

Don't forget that the cooling system on the lotus is effectively a pump-enhanced thermosyphon system

Pete

[Excel SA]

Hi Pete, yes, you're right I think it does do from side to side, but rather than top to bottom, as on the Lexus diagram, but still in at the top and out at the bottom.

I'm not getting anything completely against Plan "A", but will try and get the steering rack, oil coolers etc. in the body on the weekend to see what space I have and where, and try and plan it out from there - I still need to get an fan temperature switch (Otter switch??) and bleed line in.

Neil.

[Pete Boole]

Make sure you use an electronic "otter switch" - the mechanical ones are a bit flakey - 60 year old tech.

Pete