Cooling Fan

[MalcolmH]

Hi, after selling my '91 SE a few years ago, found my heart wouldn't let me stay away!

I've now bought an '88 Excel SE that I'm very pleased with. Among a few other minor issues, recently Fan Fail light came on and on opening bonnet found the left-hand (nearside) fan wasn't working. Tried replacing LH fan fuse twice, just blew straightaway. The right-hand fan comes on fine when it should, and the car - so far anyway - isn't overheating. Have lubed the non-working one, though it didn't seem seized or hard to move.

Am I fine running with just one fan? I recall doing that with my last Excel for about 4 years, till eventually having the duff one replaced by Miles Wilkins. Prior to that, the needle only ever climbed if stuck a long time in stop-start traffic. With this '88 car I'm not even getting that - just the slight annoyance of the Fan Fail light almost constantly on. I'm presuming both fans worked when I bought the car, as this only occurred after a few days' driving. With previous Excels (I've had 5 in all) I can't remember if the fans are meant to come on together. Or if the 2nd only kicks-in when needed?

I'm not that familiar with electrics, but have already 'done the gynaecology' up behind both footwell panels to replace window fuses. A challenge on the driver's side, as first I had to free-up the seized seat runners!! So I know there are relays in there. Is one for the LH fan, and does anyone know if that might be the problem? And if so, how I identify it? I've only got the basic under-dash fusebox diagram, nothing (unfortunately) for the two footwell panels.

Any help/guidance gratefully appreciated.

[rbgosling]

For the next 8 months I'd say you are absolutely fine running with one fan. If you are rarely in stop-start traffic, you're probably OK even in hotter weather.

I'd start with the fan itself, instinct is that is mostly likely to be the problem, besides it is easy to test (and I'm all in favour of trying the easy stuff first). Try disconnecting it and connecting it straight to a battery. Possibly with a fuse inbetween, and see if the fuse blows, and (if the fuse doesn't blow) if the fan turns. Only if that all works properly would I start delving into other options with the wiring, switch, relays etc.

Yes, I think both fans are supposed to come on at the same time, because they are both controlled by the one otter switch, and that's either on or off. Unless a previous owner has modified it...

[MalcolmH]

Ah, thanks, Richard.

More for the reassurance on single-fan running than anything. To be honest, I wouldn't know to connect the fan directly to a battery, let alone install a fuse in between! I've got a voltmeter/multimeter - would that tell me anything, touched directly to somewhere on the fan? Forgive my ignorance if that's a stupid question.

Something I'd forgotten... when the Fan Fail originally came on, first thing I did was check the coolant. And it was low, so I topped it up. I'd recalled the level in the left-hand coolant reservoir (the one you check) had to be up to the top. It wasn't - it was about halfway down, and when I opened the overflow reservoir to check that, there wasn't much in there. So I topped the left-hand reservoir up. The Fan Fail stayed off so I thought "Job done", but it came back on a short while after. It was only then that I actually checked the fans, and saw the LH one wasn't engaging.

Having just remembered the above, might the Fan Fail light be more a coolant issue in this case? In other words, could it be something I did (or didn't do) that's triggered the light? And as the car's run fine so far, maybe only one fan was working when (and before) I bought it.

It's been shut in my lock-up a few miles away the last week or so. So haven't checked the coolant again since the above episode.

[rbgosling]

The "Fan Fail" light is more of a general "coolant system warning" light - it can mean any of:

• fan not working
• coolant low
• coolant too hot

So worth checking all of those.

If the fuse blows as soon as fitting a new one, then a voltmeter on the fan won't tell you anything, as the supply of electricity will have halted at the fuse, so there won't be anything to measure at the fan.

Diagnosing electrical faults is usually a fairly logical process, if you understand the concept and have access to a wiring diagram. However, if testing a fan by temporarily connecting it to a spare battery is concerning for you, I suspect you may need some in-person help from someone with a bit more auto-electrical confidence.

[MalcolmH]

Very tactfully put, Richard! And thank you

The past few years - and funnily enough, more after owning my last Excel than during - I've been tackling more basic mechanical stuff with cars than I ever did before. But you're right, electrics are still an unknown world to me.

Driving about with just one fan - while I look to sort more pressing issues - was my main concern, and you've allayed that. Tomorrow's looking a decent weather day, so after re-checking the coolant, I'll bring the car over (if I left enough fuel in it!) to carry on looking at other stuff. Already attached & routed the unconnected filler neck breather pipe, tamed the wild-parking wiper, sorted the non-working washers, driver's seat runners, and one of the power windows (both had stopped working) and have - among other things - a possible sticking caliper to investigate.

So an enjoyable day beckons!

[Hawaiis0]

is there enough slack to switch the fan connections?

[MalcolmH]

Hmm, don't know... good thought though. May look at that tomorrow.

Bit of deja-vu from when I had the last car, though. During the 4 years I ran it with just 1 working fan (including a 10-day trip around Brittany) I was always very nervous about doing anything that might stop the single remaining fan from working!

[KevW]

I replaced my o/s fan a couple of months ago Malcolm. The faulty fan still was able to spin freely by hand. I did as has already been suggested and swapped the fan connections between left and right and then switched on the ignition and shorted out the otter switch with a small loop of wire and a couple of spade connectors to determine the fan was actually u/s. It's a lot safer doing it this way as opposed to running the engine. Bonnet removal is a must for this job.

[MalcolmH]

Thanks, Kev (and all). Think I'm going to leave the fan for now, and concentrate on the other stuff.

I don't have the skills many of you guys have - shorting out switches, etc. In a couple of weeks I've got an auto electrician coming to look at what seems to be a parasitic drain on my Saab. So I'm going to ask him to look over the fan. Also the non-working passenger window, if I can't sort that.

Since I posted earlier, the previous owner's come back saying far as he's aware, both fans worked when it left him. So the fail's a recent thing. Both windows also worked fine for me tiill 10 days ago, then both stopped. I replaced fuses behind the 2 footwell panels - now driver's window works fine, passenger window still doesn't.

Passenger switch now clicks once (before changing fuse it didn't click at all). But apart from that, nothing happens.

[bash]

Anyway, after all that, welcome back malcolm.

Bash

[MalcolmH]

Thanks, Bash... and all of you.

Didn't realise how much I'd missed all the knowledge, enthusiasm and empathy on here.

[Lotus-e-Clan]

Great to see you're back in the fold Malcolm.

You're not the first, and won't be the last, to sell their Excel then sooner or later regret not having one.

The grass is always greener on the other side, until you get there, then realise it was just astro turf you were looking at. Real grass needs maintenance ... it's all about 'The struggle'!

Back to the coolant light. If you disconnect the coolant level wire at the tank the fan light will stay on, so a fan light warning can be caused by duff connections at the tank.

Check that the wire to the coolant tank is not fractured and that the connector has a tight connection and there is no corrosion preventing continuity.

[MetBlue]

Welcome (back) Malcolm.
I suspect your dash light is more likely prompted by the coolant level switch, but you clearly have a fan problem which I agree is maybe not the highest priority to replace.
My coolant level behaved almost exactly as you describe, and for a long while, I had a very slight leak from the top hose, meaning the level fell and kept sitting just below or just above the switch tube. Even now with leak sorted, it's only just above switch when cold, no matter how many times I top it up to the tank top when cold. Can also confirm that when could, the rear expansion tank is empty.
Tony
BTW, the fans are common with some Ford's of the late 80's - Fiestas I think, but there is info and part numbers elsewhere in the forum.

[tonypoll]

You may want to check the wire connection block that sits just above the fans. This is cunningly designed so water falling down the gap at the front on the bonnet goes onto this connection block.
Mine were pretty corroded, ensuring the fans worked intermittently. I replaced it with a waterproof connector, and secured the block up under the front with a cable tie, away from any future water leakage.

[MalcolmH]

Thanks for all the extra pointers, fellers - and the good wishes. You especially, Peter.

Didn't get as much time to spend today as intended. Totally misjudged how long it would take to get over to the lockup, trying to avoid the on-road tailbacks for the garages that had fuel in. Then same on the way back, which was hairier - as I'd seriously overestimated how much fuel I'd left in the Excel!! So only managed an hour or so in the end, and very little fuel to run the engine with!

However think I've established it's the LH fan. Not the coolant, as what I topped-up 10 days ago - LH tank brimmed, tiny bit in the overflow - was exactly how I found it today. And is the same after the 6-mile trip back, and running the engine while here. And the connectors to the coolant are intact & uncorroded. But thanks for the heads-up.

The Fan Fail shone briefly when ignition switched on, then went off. At the point the fans are meant to start the RH fan kicked-in fine at that point, LH didn't (blew its fuse again) & Fan Fail lit & stayed on. The RH fan continued working perfectly.

I then tried connecting the LH fan to a spare charged 12v battery (having Googled how to do it!) with some jump leads. However not wanting to remove the bonnet - and having no wire - with the confined access I struggled getting straightened-out paperclips seated well enough in the connectors. So instead I went with Hawaiso's (Stu's?) idea of plugging the RH fan's connectors into the LH fan. At the point the fans should come on, the fuse blew again (obviously the RH fuse this time) and no fan engaged. So am I right thinking this means the actual LH fan has died - rather than a relay or something?

I then reconnected the RH fan - along with a new fuse - to check that still worked fine as before. Which it did. And noticed that, as I'd left the LH fan unconnected - no Fan Fail light. Does this mean that until I get the LH fan replaced, I can leave it unconnected and tape-wrap the terminals, to avoid the Fan Fail coming on? And if I do that, d'you reckon it will still warn if the coolant's too low or too hot, or if the RH fan fails?