Elite 1974 - Rust hole - What would you do !

General Elite, Eclat and Excel discussions.

Moderator: Board Moderators

neilbennet
Junior Poster
Posts: 25
Joined: Thu May 14, 2020 22:58
Model: Elite 1974
Colour: Blue
Year: 1982
Location: Sussex - between Gatwick and Brighton

Elite 1974 - Rust hole - What would you do !

Post by neilbennet »

Hi all,

I have recently posted about my love to restore a 1974 Elite that has been off of the road for last 30 years. But it seems the rust got it years ago as it has been dry stored for all of its life.

I include a photo which hopefully comes out clearly and the ask is "What would you do" So far two knowledgable people have seen the photo and not looking good.

Please what would you do if you have faced this or in my spot... I understand rust, old cars and some restoration; but there is a limit when it comes to value and deep pockets.

Image

Thank you

cheers
Neil
Lotus Elite 1974
Jensens - Healeys, GT, Interceptor III
Gilbern Invader
Derby Bentley

User avatar
Hawaiis0
Senior Poster
Posts: 4130
Joined: Sun Jun 30, 2013 18:39
Model: Excel SA (No 3); Elite 504
Colour: BRG; Dirty White
Year: 1986
Location: West Oxfordshire

Re: Elite 1974 - Rust hole - What would you do !

Post by Hawaiis0 »

Find a replacement Chassis.

Consider an Excel chassis swap as well.

It has been done several times.

I know of one available if you need a steer..
Nothing is fool proof. Fools are clever!

Marten
Regular Poster
Posts: 127
Joined: Tue Aug 10, 2021 20:38
Model: excel
Colour: red
Year: 1985
Location: NL
Contact:

Re: Elite 1974 - Rust hole - What would you do !

Post by Marten »

Hawaiis0 wrote:
Wed Jan 12, 2022 20:25
Find a replacement Chassis.
Maybe. If there is a hole there is probably a lot more going on rustwise. But on the other hand it could be local and just in need a section replacing. You'll have to investigate and poke around. And then get the body off to fix it

neilbennet
Junior Poster
Posts: 25
Joined: Thu May 14, 2020 22:58
Model: Elite 1974
Colour: Blue
Year: 1982
Location: Sussex - between Gatwick and Brighton

Re: Elite 1974 - Rust hole - What would you do !

Post by neilbennet »

i really do want to keep the single suspension arm for the rear as it is a feature I love. How much in ££ is it to lift off a body, get a welder to restore and then put body back on. Seems easy to me but I have no lift and no room to split a body and a chassis at the moment.
Lotus Elite 1974
Jensens - Healeys, GT, Interceptor III
Gilbern Invader
Derby Bentley

TAR
Regular Poster
Posts: 132
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2016 22:21
Model: Elite Type 75
Colour: blue
Location: Buckinghamshire

Re: Elite 1974 - Rust hole - What would you do !

Post by TAR »

The crossbeam was originally fitted with a felt pad between it and the body. Once that gets wet it holds moisture against the metal which causes the rust. To get a hole like that will likely mean the whole crossmember is rusted away. It's a major job to separate the body from the chassis and you may have more rust elsewhere. Most early cars have had replacement galvanised chassis but appears yours has never been replaced. :)

neilbennet
Junior Poster
Posts: 25
Joined: Thu May 14, 2020 22:58
Model: Elite 1974
Colour: Blue
Year: 1982
Location: Sussex - between Gatwick and Brighton

Re: Elite 1974 - Rust hole - What would you do !

Post by neilbennet »

Please as in my post - If your can - What would you do please in this situation. an Elite ; purchased for £3500 ; at best could be worth £8,000 ; What would you do please ?

I have known about chassis failures for easily 35 years; but now in 2022 what options are there ?

cheers
Neil
Lotus Elite 1974
Jensens - Healeys, GT, Interceptor III
Gilbern Invader
Derby Bentley

Marten
Regular Poster
Posts: 127
Joined: Tue Aug 10, 2021 20:38
Model: excel
Colour: red
Year: 1985
Location: NL
Contact:

Re: Elite 1974 - Rust hole - What would you do !

Post by Marten »

neilbennet wrote:
Wed Jan 12, 2022 21:34
i really do want to keep the single suspension arm for the rear as it is a feature I love. How much in ££ is it to lift off a body, get a welder to restore and then put body back on. Seems easy to me but I have no lift and no room to split a body and a chassis at the moment.
If you can classify fighting with a bunch of inaccessible bolts rusted solid for 40 years is 'easy', you probably have a decent workshop and grubby hands. I do but I wouldn't get closer than 'doable but no fun at all' ;)

With these jobs you never know what problems you'll run in to (do the brakelines unscrew or do they break, multiply by X etc) so what starts out as one week could easily become 2

Pete Boole
Senior Poster
Posts: 3711
Joined: Tue Apr 04, 2006 21:28
Model: Elite
Colour: Monaco White
Year: 1974
Location: Nottingham

Re: Elite 1974 - Rust hole - What would you do !

Post by Pete Boole »

You have no choice but to remove the body to check the extent of the corrosion - it will probably be extensive on that rear crossmember. It will be repairable though. Well worth doing to save the car!

Pete

neilbennet
Junior Poster
Posts: 25
Joined: Thu May 14, 2020 22:58
Model: Elite 1974
Colour: Blue
Year: 1982
Location: Sussex - between Gatwick and Brighton

Re: Elite 1974 - Rust hole - What would you do !

Post by neilbennet »

Thank you all for your support. Nobody told me to scrap and break. I had a visit from the well known expert Miles Wilkins who lives nearby and has been working with Lotus since easily the 70's and maybe even the 60's. He said break it many times, he said it would be a mammoth effort with great cost in time and money.

I feel strongly about saving so I have agreed to arrange to lift the body and Miles will happily come over to advise where to cut all the bolts if I cannot undo the bolts holding chassis to body.

The only expense will be in the time to split and lift the body as no parts will be purchased yet.

I am sure the community will love to see the photos of the splitting process and the lift and then the results of the chassis after 48 years.

Can i ask if there is an alternative to Spyder to restore the chassis - Is there anyone else in the UK able to weld true and also possibly have a Jig.

cheers
Neil
Lotus Elite 1974
Jensens - Healeys, GT, Interceptor III
Gilbern Invader
Derby Bentley

User avatar
Hawaiis0
Senior Poster
Posts: 4130
Joined: Sun Jun 30, 2013 18:39
Model: Excel SA (No 3); Elite 504
Colour: BRG; Dirty White
Year: 1986
Location: West Oxfordshire

Re: Elite 1974 - Rust hole - What would you do !

Post by Hawaiis0 »

I heard a story Lotusbits are producing new replacement chassis now, but not sure where or how reliable. Well worth an ask, but you can do the excel chassis swap as mentioned. Speak to Richardw on that.

There is an admin auto bot which monitors the words " break it ".

Two transgressions and you get barred for 1 a week.

See you next week :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Nothing is fool proof. Fools are clever!

User avatar
Lotus-e-Clan
Senior Poster
Posts: 4454
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 13:25
Model: Excel SE - EWP/Waterless!
Colour: Not Blue or Green
Year: 1989
Location: Swaledale

Re: Elite 1974 - Rust hole - What would you do !

Post by Lotus-e-Clan »

If you love Chapman you will keep the rear suspension of the original Elite and not replace with an Excel chassis. The rear suspension design, whilst flawed in geometric terms, has those beautiful alloy hubs that have '60s/'70s F1 DNA plus in-board drums (as long as your diff doesn't leak all over them, they are wonderful). OK the front trunions are a pain too, and the driveshaft u/j's need to be watched for wear on an annual basis, but the Elite rear suspension/chassis has more Chapman than you can shake a stick at (I think you already know this).

Get in touch with LB as already mentioned. They may be expensive in the eyes of the casual budget restorer, but knowledge of the current options will be second to none. 8)

As far as values are concerned, once Pete B and a few others roll out their restorations and get the attention at shows and within magazines, £8K will be what you will need to pay for the car you already have and the £3.5K will only get you a basket case comprising body shell/rotten chassis, no interior or drive train and a V5!

The Elite's on the up in the longer term, down lose your nerve! :D
Peter K

Marten
Regular Poster
Posts: 127
Joined: Tue Aug 10, 2021 20:38
Model: excel
Colour: red
Year: 1985
Location: NL
Contact:

Re: Elite 1974 - Rust hole - What would you do !

Post by Marten »

neilbennet wrote:
Thu Jan 13, 2022 16:38
Is there anyone else in the UK able to weld true and also possibly have a Jig.

Neil
A fixture is nice if you know what you are doing, but it is not a substitute for knowing your stuff. A good fabricator who understands what he (and the metal) is doing is more important. Some things might take a bit longer without a fixture and you might need to fabricate some temporary fixtures, but you might not have to strip everything either.

User avatar
MetBlue
Senior Poster
Posts: 1401
Joined: Sat Mar 24, 2018 21:00
Model: Elite 74 & Excel 92 (SEish))
Colour: Metalic Blue
Year: 1974
Location: Northampton

Re: Elite 1974 - Rust hole - What would you do !

Post by MetBlue »

Every days a school day.
Knowing Neil's car was a very unmolested early example, I'd arranged to meet along with Miles today to see the car. I was particularly interested in the interior trim, but I'll post more about the learning's on my resto thread ( that I see Neil has kindly reactivated) rather than hijacking his thread.
At first sight, the car might be viewed as not having a lot going for it. Shot chassis at the rear, potentially very dodgy engine, blistered paint ( biggest micro blisters I've ever seen, but the paint still looks pretty well attached to the Gell coat), and an interior where the only reason the head lining doesn't touch the carpet is because there's no carpet fitted :!: - But there is no doubting Neil's enthusiasm for the car, he has a spare engine, quite rightly IMO see's the paint condition as "patina" and I know from my experience with my Excel that a bit of patience, knowledge and a few hundred quid can make the interior at least habitable for humans and not mice. So that just leaves the chassis.
Good on you Neil for seeing the positives and being realistic about returning to a driver, without overly worrying about visuals initially.
A car well worth saving - and with a lot of original parts. I'm jealous of some of the bit's you have. :twisted:

Tony
What goes together.... Must come apart.

Pete Boole
Senior Poster
Posts: 3711
Joined: Tue Apr 04, 2006 21:28
Model: Elite
Colour: Monaco White
Year: 1974
Location: Nottingham

Re: Elite 1974 - Rust hole - What would you do !

Post by Pete Boole »

Great to hear that another is hopefully going to be saved! :D

Pete

User avatar
MetBlue
Senior Poster
Posts: 1401
Joined: Sat Mar 24, 2018 21:00
Model: Elite 74 & Excel 92 (SEish))
Colour: Metalic Blue
Year: 1974
Location: Northampton

Re: Elite 1974 - Rust hole - What would you do !

Post by MetBlue »

Neil
To help identify attachment points, see below.
Image
I could probably get a few photo's of locations for a number of the point if needed.

1 and 2 from the engine bay.
3,4,& 5 from inside the car - lift the carpet near the centre tunnel.
6 & 7 from inside the boot.
14 bolts in total, plus the clutch cable, hand brake cable and 2 hydraulic copper brake pipes from the master cylinder.
Also a few wires, not least the main 12V and earth cable to the starter motor.
Bound to be a few other connection point, but sure others will elaborate.
I definitely took my body off without removing the engine, but I may have taken the Exhaust Cam carrier off - Which won;'t be easy as the exhaust manifold needs removing first with some realy difficult nut positions.

Tony
What goes together.... Must come apart.

Post Reply