Representing the third generation….

[richardw]

We have been having some discussions about an interesting new idea that was put to us at the Classic Motor Show in November, and I’d like to circulate this with members before we announce anything.

A very well known serial Esprit owner and restorer joined us on the stand. He loves the Elite, Eclat and Excel as well, having owned an Excel before. As we were talking, the idea of admitting Esprit owners to The Lotus Grand Tourers came up, as we could then fully represent the third generation of Lotus cars together at shows and events, and share knowledge and experience with those Esprit owners who may want to join us.

This forum would be relatively unaffected by such a move as there are plenty of technical Esprit forums out there which do a great job of supporting the Esprit community. If there were a demand, we could add a section to this forum, but we wouldn’t want to mix Esprit topics amongst the existing categories for the Elite, Eclat and Excel.

As well as events, the main effect would be on The Lotus Grand Tourers Facebook page where we would start to see contributions from Esprit owners.

I think the consensus so far from the club committee and others on our Zoom call where we discussed it has been positive as there is quite a lot of restoration and maintenance synergy between the models, although they do represent different driving experiences. And we see a lot of value in representing this generation of Lotus cars together - which were all part of the same product strategy, and on which many of the same individuals and teams worked.

Would welcome any thoughts!

Cheers, Richard

[DavidOliver]

We would probably see an increase in value for our cars if they are recognised as an Esprit equivalent (or Better)

Dave the cog.

[AndrewWebber]

Fine with me. If so, maybe my Esprit S3 turbo chassis and front suspension/steering equipped, stretched width and length, 'Europa type 47D/62 tribute' with Turbo'd Rover V8 and (currently in the process of installing) an Audi transaxle, might even be allowed to lurk on the murky fringes ?

[Hawaiis0]

Graham Robson's book supports the notion.
Would enable Shaun a segway back into the fold.
And we already have the Off Topic Section perfect for them.

Watching to see how the consensus unfolds.

For those unaware, one link to Graham's book below.
https://www.stellabooks.com/books/grah ... de/1817868

[rbgosling]

Hmmm...

Is there anything similar to this group already existing for Esprits? Or do their owners mainly hang out on Esprit-specific fora on a broader website, such as TLF? If they are already well catered for, what would be the draw for an Esprit owner in joining this group too?

If there is nothing similar, then by all means I'd welcome Esprit members onto this group. If there is something else, I'm a little more wary, I wouldn't want to fuel a schism! One of the benefits of this site is that it is sort of a benevolent monopoly, a generous proportion of all Lotus GT owners are here (and those that aren't seem not to want a forum, preferring either Facebook or no online presence). Having just one place to go has its benefits (as long as it's not a tax-dodging self-serving multinational like Amazon), it saves you searching around multiple places when you are after something, and there are more people to respond when you have a question.

Even if there is another existing group, I would definitely support working with them, e.g. shared or adjacent stands at shows, joint events, and so on.

Finally, of course, ownership of a Lotus GT has never been a pre-requisite for belonging to this group, so any Esprit owner is always welcome as far as I'm concerned - along with their knowledge and experience of the 900-series engine, and general chit-chat of the wonders of Lotus in the 70s and 80s.

[bash]

I think Im with you on this, whenever Ive been to any Lotus 'do' where Esprits are our cars never get a second glance, almost like we are the poor relations, so I dont think that would be a good fit. But there again what do I know ?

Bash

[JB455]

I can see the logic as the cars were being built at the same time and share some tech. That being said, there is a LOT more out there for the Esprit owners. Being in the US, I frequent LotusTalk.com and they have a very active Esprit section. This page is the only place that I can find an active community with knowledge of my Excel. Either way, it'll be fine with me as I was lucky enough to recently add a 1988 Esprit Turbo to join my '85 Excel.

[Pete Boole]

I'm not fundamentally opposed to the idea but I tend to follow the Esprit mechanical stuff on TLF, as would most Esprit owners I would have thought. Can't see much point replicating it on here. Very happy for Esprit owners to join us though!

Pete

[KevW]

I've always liked Esprits and in my experience have found their owners to be good company.

Having said that I'm struggling to see any benefit to Esprit owners or four seater owners by extending this forum to cover Esprits.

[barker_001]

I agree with KevW and Pete's posts above. I don't see a benefit to adding an Esprit section to this forum, although of course I would welcome any Esprit owners (or indeed anyone with an interest in Lotus) who wanted to join the existing forum.
Esprits are well catered for elsewhere. On the odd occasion where I've needed info (primarily engine info, or other common parts) not available on this forum, it's no problem to take a look (or even ask the question, if you're a member, like I am) over at TLF or one of the other resources primarily covering the Esprit.

[hodders]

Nothing against Esprits, still aspire to one, etc etc. but I'm firmly against the idea. Plenty of online places for the Esprit owners to discuss things and I fear this almost-unique forum would get diluted by Esprit-talk.

[richardw]

Thanks everyone for your comments. I think many of the sentiments expressed are covered in my original post, so it is good to see an element of consensus emerging.

Let’s leave this open until the end of the week for any additional views, then I’ll attempt to summarise.

Many thanks, Richard

[shaunw]

As an ex Excel owner and current Esprit owner I like the idea. Quite a few Lotus Enthusiasts I know are fans of the 'wedge period' of Lotus cars, myself included so to me it makes perfect sense. Getting together for events would be great and there are a lot of mechanical similarities so experience sharing on the forum would be useful for both parties.

TLF is OK, but I have to say I miss the commaradery of this forum and I think there is an opportunity here to make a really good forum even.......grander?

Regards
Shaun

[richardw]

Ok, my attempt to summarise:

1. This forum should not be adversely affected by any move to admit Esprit owners to The Lotus Grand Tourers club. It will remain a dedicated technical forum for 4 seater owners, but new Esprit members will be free both to contribute technical advice and to participate in the social topics. Esprit owners are well served by other resources, but if there were to be a demand, then technically we could set up a new sub forum to cater for this.

2. There is recognition amongst some people that bringing the third generation cars together in the club would be a positive move. Equally some others don’t see the value. One of the advantages would be to provide club representation for a particular era of Lotus history which represented a huge step for Lotus, and which was both Colin Chapman’s concept and his legacy. My feeling is we should try it to see how it goes.

3. We do not aim to compete with other clubs! We are not a commercial organisation beyond selling merchandise, and yet manage to participate in three or four major events each year together with regular zoom calls and providing a platform for people to advertise their participation in regional events. Our aim is to involve owners in supporting the heritage the cars represent while enjoying ourselves in the process. One of the challenges has been getting enough cars to participate to make the events worthwhile, so admitting Esprit owners will help in this regard. We should also sustain and broaden the cooperative relationship we have with other clubs.

4. As originally stated, it is likely that the biggest change will be seen in our Facebook group, but given the rather ephemeral nature of Facebook I don’t see this being an issue.

5. We will need to revise the logo at some point - not radically, and not losing the ‘Grand Tourers’ title, to include the Esprit. This is a job that has been outstanding for a while so maybe we’ll find someone prepared to contribute their graphic design skills amongst any Esprit admissions!

Anyway, thank you for your thoughts and contributions. If anyone feels very strongly that we shouldn’t at least try this out, then please speak now. For the record, I have briefly discussed the idea with our Patron, Mike Kimberley, who is initially supportive of a cautious approach and feels it makes a great deal of historical sense.

Cheers, Richard

[Lotus-e-Clan]

I'm OK with the idea IF the board index is updated to include Esprit -specific sections.

Examples : Esprit turbo engine; Esprit suspension: Esprit Bodywork etc etc.

I wouldn't want to have Esprit -specific technical chats within the current Excel sections on Engines, Suspension, Bodywork etc.

This way I could choose to ignore, or enjoy, Esprit-specific technical discussions.

Otherwise, without Esprit-specific sections, I’m firmly against it.

But I'm not against the IDEA of bringing the two communities together under one roof here on The Lotus Grand Tourers forum.

The success will depend upon the detailed organisation and proper monitoring of content.
Big job, but someone will have to do it otherwise there'll be fireworks IMHO.