How do you buy an Excel?

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Jazzy
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How do you buy an Excel?

Post by Jazzy »

Hi all,
I'm looking for some good advice right now!
On Wednesday I booked an appointment to visit a Lotus Excel celebration for first thing Thursday morning, only to receive a call that evening telling me that the car had been sold, (even though as the first person to call I was given what I thought was first refusal).
This is now the 8th car in the last two years where I have suffered this kind of behaviour.
I have never met such an unscrupulous group of people as I have while trying to purchase one of these cars.

So I guess my question is: are there any decent human beings out there that still have these cars for sale?
Is there anything particular I should be trying to do as I seem to have run out of all ideas.
Or, perhaps if you know of someone who is thinking of parting ways with a late 89-onwards SE - can you point them in my direction because I really don't know what I'm doing wrong.
While I am a private buyer, it will be a cash purchase.

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Tanz
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Re: How do you buy an Excel?

Post by Tanz »

Are you a Club Lotus member? There are usually one or two for sale in the Club Lotus News - I would like to think most people selling in there are trust worthy :roll:
Sorry you have had such a bad time getting an Excel
Cheers, Phil
Never take life seriously, nobody gets out alive anyway!

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bash
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Re: How do you buy an Excel?

Post by bash »

Not a very nice way to deal with people thats for sure. I had a similar experience with a TVR a few years ago with a dealer, didnt find out until I pitched up on his doorstep. Perhaps you ought to widen your search to earlier cars to give you more choice. Later, perhaps low mileage garage queen cars may not be as good as one that is used more. The main problem you have is that they are such a good car once sorted that people hang on to them and sorted ones tend to be used. Good luck and dont give up.
Bash
Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.

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MetBlue
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Re: How do you buy an Excel?

Post by MetBlue »

Is it the Celebration on Car & Classic in Kings Langley that messed you around? If so, owner tried to sell it on Ebay in Sept 2022, but it didn't reach his reserve, so didn't sell.
If not, there's 2 sources you need to keep your eye on.
Keep looking. If you have a solid budget, you'll find the right car before too long.

BTW, IMO. the owners of these garage Queens are challenging the extremes of value. The Kings Langley Celebration has been 300 miles in the last 9 years, and is still getting the same advisory on a worn tyre that it got in 2014. If you're looking for a reliable daily runner, this car needs a full set of new tyres, and I'd want to do all fluids belts etc and probably hoses before trusting it. Even if you're handy with spannering, you need to add another £2K on to the price of £16K - and a good deal more if you want someone to do it for you.
For £15K, you should find a good car, that is being used frequently and has evidence of the belts / oil change recently - And good tyres :!:

Tony
What goes together.... Must come apart.

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Hawaiis0
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Re: How do you buy an Excel?

Post by Hawaiis0 »

I know of one coming up soon - a very tidy SE Late example. Rebuilt engine to 275 BHP which has been tweeked down.

Price will be around £16k

I'll check on the status.
Nothing is fool proof. Fools are clever!

Jazzy
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Re: How do you buy an Excel?

Post by Jazzy »

Thank you guys, for all your replies.
yes I am a club Lotus,SELOC, & LDC club member I just haven't been able to get to as many of the clubs as I'd hoped over the last few years with my Elise, however I have just been made redundant after 30 years of working for one company, so at the moment I do have a little bit more time.
Yes the latest car was in Kings Langley but it was sold before I got a chance to even look at it.
I have had an identical experience with a specialist Lotus dealer in East Kent (who should remain annomos) who did exactly the same thing to me.
. Although I have had private sellers arranged a particular time and date to suit them and then only find out that they've already sold the car when I confirm on the day of travelling.
It's a shame so many cars end up at auction, I'm really not a fan of auctions.
. I was looking for a later car for more refinement, easier access to parts and if I'm lucky air conditioning which gives me a Glimmer of Hope of keeping the cabin demisted on a wet and horrible day.
Body work is the only thing that scares me on these cars as I am useless with fibreglass, however I'm good mechanically and was known as a bit of a genius when it came to electrical issues having had a background of working with TVRs in my early 20s and supporting the S-series for 15 years for the club.
. I always make people laugh when I compare TVRs to lotuses as I like to say a TVR is a chainsaw and a lotus is a scalpel😉
The hardest thing is get to these cars quickly which is obviously difficult to do when I'm working - I can't compete with dealers in that respect even if I do have the money available right now.
I have to accept that a lot of these cars have been sitting around in garages for long periods of time a lot of the cars seem to have quite large gaps in their MOTs. I do get frustrated with the way that people try and describe them - things along the lines of "had a cambelt change 700 miles ago" which when you look in the history was 12 years!
To be honest none of that really bothers me me I accept that there are going to be a lot of perishable parts that will start to let go quite quickly once the car is being driven again.
Would I be right in thinking that the engine is quite strong if it's been looked after and it's probably important to check compression and is as the cylinder liners can let go?
Is the car that might be coming up for sale on Facebook ( a friend of mine has suggested there might be one coming up on there) I'll I don't mind the state of tune of the engine but that can make it unreliable as well?
I do like to keep the cars fairly stock i.e. original Interiors and wheels although I don't have a problem with upgrading the headlights🙂
Thank you all once again and if you see anything please give me a shout
kindest regards, Ian

HC180
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Re: How do you buy an Excel?

Post by HC180 »

Is it the Celebration on Car & Classic in Kings Langley that messed you around? If so, owner tried to sell it on Ebay in Sept 2022, but it didn't reach his reserve, so didn't sell.
Was this the car requiring cosmetics to the offside B Pillar?
Last edited by HC180 on Tue Feb 07, 2023 22:41, edited 1 time in total.

Jazzy
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Re: How do you buy an Excel?

Post by Jazzy »

Hawaiis0 wrote:
Sat Feb 04, 2023 11:13
I know of one coming up soon - a very tidy SE Late example. Rebuilt engine to 275 BHP which has been tweeked down.

Price will be around £16k

I'll check on the status.
Hi Hawaiis0, are there any pictures on the web for this car?

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rbgosling
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Re: How do you buy an Excel?

Post by rbgosling »

In terms of refinement, there really isn't much to pick between an Excel of any age, so I wouldn't get hung up on getting a later one, they are all much the same. Post-'85 you get the later dashboard, wider wheel arches, (usually) the SE 180hp engine, and rear seat belts, so if you want those then go post '85, but no need to restrict yourself to post-'89.

As for parts, they are equally available for any year Excel, and Air Conditioning was an option on all years - my '90 car does not have it, but there are some much earlier cars that do.

Yes, the engine is strong if you keep up the maintenance. Mine made it to 175,000 miles before I rebuilt it, it's now done 196,000. A compression check is certainly a good thing to check, that's what confirmed that mine needed doing, although 3 out of 4 cylinders were still good. The liners thing I think is mostly a red herring - the later engines have Nikasil-lined aluminium liners (the earlier ones were steel), Nikasil got a bad reputation but it was only because of accelerated wear in markets where the fuel was poor quality with high sulphur content, and plenty of other manufacturers (Jaguar, Porsche) used the same technology. I had mine re-coated as a precaution when I did my rebuild, but they looked in good nick straight out of the engine.
"Farmer" Richard

1990 Lotus Excel SE (Lilith)
2022 MG MG5 EV (not due to be a classic for quite a few years...)
2011 Nissan Leaf (Ragly - EV pioneer, must be due to be a classic one day)

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Hawaiis0
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Re: How do you buy an Excel?

Post by Hawaiis0 »

Jazzy wrote:
Tue Feb 07, 2023 00:11

Hi Hawaiis0, are there any pictures on the web for this car?
There are, but until the owner confirms it is available I'm not posting. He is aware of your hunting.

Stu
Nothing is fool proof. Fools are clever!

KevW
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Re: How do you buy an Excel?

Post by KevW »

As Bash and Richard have suggested don't get to fixated on geting a late car. I have a late SE and love it but if I were in the market for an Excel and a really nice earlier non-aircon car came along I'd be happy with that.

Aircon in an Excel is by no means essential. I use my Excel 52 weeks a year and never need the aircon for demisting. In fact I have to make the effort to remember to excercise the aircon otherwise it would only be used during summer, when I admit it is a nice luxury. It's also a heavy old school Toyota system that saps power from the engine when in use.
Kev W no.282

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Tanz
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Re: How do you buy an Excel?

Post by Tanz »

This looks like a well sorted one. Had a repaint so that's one expensive job of the list, new headlining...
https://www.carandclassic.com/car/C1535191
Cheers, Phil
Never take life seriously, nobody gets out alive anyway!

supraholic
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Re: How do you buy an Excel?

Post by supraholic »

Jazzy wrote:
Mon Feb 06, 2023 01:08
It's a shame so many cars end up at auction, I'm really not a fan of auctions.
Me neither! Especially the trend toward online auctions like Bring-a-Trailer. The Excel is just the sort of really unique car that would appear in such an online auction here in the states. But they're all seven days and I work for a living. I can't ever drop what I'm doing, cancel two days worth of meetings, beg for a deadline postponement and fly across country to inspect a car. Even when its a local car or within a day's round-trip, the sellers always make it as inconvenient as humanly possible to actually see the car. Of the few cars I'm interested in that have been local or that I've actually made a trip, I've usually found very expensive repairs were needed that were not obvious in the photos and videos and were not disclosed in the description. Its interesting that you can't tell if a car needs a clutch or brakes in a video. That's something you have to feel. And regardless what the resolution is of the seller's camera, your laptop or tablet screen resolution is unlikely good enough to reveal all the paint and body issues. (The white Excel just posted tho, zoom in close around the rear bumper - some poor or lack of paint prep evident).

The online auctions cater to the sellers, not the buyers, because the seller is the one who decides where and how the car is to be sold. For rare/unique cars like the Excel, the buyer has to go where the car is and use whatever method the seller chooses. And I get it. I've sold a few cars. Usually I've got somebody on the forum, in the local club, a coworker or somebody who has already told me they want to buy my car. But I've advertised a few. I'll agree to meet somebody, wait around all day and they never show or somebody will come all excited only for me to figure out they were just out for a joyride and didn't have the money to buy my car. It's a hassle. The online auction makes it sell fast and the format makes it so that you don't really have to show it to prospective bidders.

I've only bought one car through an online auction, a 1968 Mustang that was being sold out of the collection of the Sewell family that owns several local new car dealerships. They had it available to inspect at their Lexus dealership and tasked one of their junior salesmen to show it to me but there was no hint in the ad online that it belonged to anyone prominent or that it was available to see from 9am to 9pm six days a week. I was the only one to actually come see it and all the other bidders were I think holding back. Mustangs were for a long time quite cheap and tended to get rather low-budget, amateur restoration work. This one was done in the body shop at Sewell Cadillac (the husband of one of my coworkers is employed there and actually did most of the work on it).

So I feel like I stole that Mustang, but even when you inspect a car yourself, there's still risk. I even wound up once with a Plymouth that had been stolen and VIN-swapped 32 years earlier. I looked it over pretty good, but only found out after I got it home, started taking it apart to make a few repairs and found two other VINs that didn't match the ones in the window and on the data tag. I had bought it through a reputable dealer who promptly gave me my money back and went after the consignor. But imagine what if I had bought it online. The seller would be thousands of miles away and could just disappear. And that's a lot worse than just discovering that it needs a clutch or had some hidden rust.

I know most people just bid sight-unseen and hope for the best. I've talked to quite a few people at car shows who've bought cars online sight-unseen and unscientifically, anecdotally, it seems about 50/50 whether they felt they got taken or got a fair deal. I guess if I were bidding on a fairly cheap car, maybe I could take a chance, but I worked too hard for my money. If I lost a bunch of money on a car, I'd equate it to the number of extra months that I'm going to have to work to make up the loss before I can retire.

I hope you find exactly the car you want and can negotiate a fair price while standing right in front of it.
Phil - 86 Excel SE

Jazzy
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Re: How do you buy an Excel?

Post by Jazzy »

Hi Supraholic,
I'm sorry to hear that you have suffered similar issues with sellers and auctioneers alike, I was beginning to think it was just me.😭
Every car I've come across at auction always seems to have something to hide.
The pictures, as you say, are always strange angles or low-resolution which hides damage or what would be visible issues.
There is a new listing currently on eBay. I asked three very specific questions, I only got one answer.
I think I may have even visited it last year: the seller had already warmed the engine up before I got there - for me, the alarm bells were going off straight away - it put me off.
I think the only thing to hope for is if somebody is clearing an estate.(from an auction point of view)
Lotus owners in the clubs are some of the nicest people I've had the pleasure of dealing with. unfortunately the cars being sold are not being sold by those people😫

Jazzy
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Re: How do you buy an Excel?

Post by Jazzy »

:) [quote=Tanz post_id=102261 time=1676225281 user_id=314]
This looks like a well sorted one. Had a repaint so that's one expensive job of the list, new headlining...
https://www.carandclassic.com/car/C1535191
[/quote]

Hi Tanz,yes I saw that one but my impression was it's very top end money for an oatmeal interior non air-conditioned .......with advisories☹️

Weirdly the seller states it has 76k on the clock yet my checks indicate it's actually done 95k and there's a unusual jump in mileage between 2018 and 2019 of 18500 miles

Is the consensus here that is good value for money?

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