Lotus electrical nightmare of all nightmares...another one..

[omendata]

Well this is a bad one

Im trying in vain to fix my mothers Lotus Excel

The car will turnover and run with the ignition in position 2
However when the key is dropped back to position 1 the engine cuts out

Ive had it into two garages after replacing the coil , testing the wiring from and to the coil

Both garages gave up and told me they couldnt fix it and i would have to take it to a Lotus garage

I suspected it may be the AB14 lucas ignition amp

Has anybody got a clue ont his one
I see from other posts it could be the dizzy?

I have lost so much hair now im beginning to resemble Kojak

Just ordered an AB14 so hopefully it will sort it as its a last resort
I dont know how it would affect it as the engine fires and runs fine when the ignition key is in the start position 2 so that would tell me the ampo circuit is ok

[Ozzy_UK]

i know some people have "upgraded" their ignition amps to great sucess...

anyone else?

[amarshall]

Could be something around the starter "drop out" relay ?

[Redexcel]

I'd be inclined to suspect the ignition switch isn't connecting in position 1

[omendata]

Thanks for the quick responses much appreciated

Well in truth the car was working fine until my father decided to swap in a new coil as there was a slight misfiring problem.

He isnt sure whether he got the leads on the coil the right way first time so i suspected he may have blown something.
Ie the ignition amp!

The starter "drop out" relay sounds a possibility!
Can you tell me where this would be located and how it would affect the running - the starter starts the car ok!
I dont have a manual for the car either.

Im afraid my personal interest is in kitcars notably my dutton which i built from scratch so im not a newbie in the area of car mechanics but my knowledge of engines really doesnt extend much from a Xflow Escort MK I/II as I like to keep it simple! All that ECU , brains , ic logic gives me a headache! Even this ignition amp is new for me!

My mothers motto - LOTUS - Lots Of Trouble Usually Serious - How true!

It was "serviced" (I laugh when i say that at the official Murray Motors in Glasgo) - If anyone in Scotland has a problem with their Lotus and wants to take theirs to this repair shop in Glasgow id advise them to steer clear of these cowboys!

Not only did the repair cost wait for it £1500 they replaced just about everything in the engine compartment until they fixed the startup problem
the car had developed (and didnt keep the original parts for my father to examine) (and couldnt tell him what the fault was exactly as they had replaced too much at the one time) but on inspection by myself this year I found that the front crossmember had been crushed - presumably when they took it off a ramp - this was causing the grinding noise on the anti-rollbar as the car went around corners. Not only that but the clutch gaitor is virtually non existent and it could pop out at anytime. Many more issues that should have been rectified - even the air filter wasnt replaced - how dumbass is that!

To pay £1500 and not have the basics done is a scandal.

Anyways enough of my rant.

I did phone a company in England who specialise in Lotus and they say that some have a regulator in the rev counter which if damaged stops the engine from firing. If the rev counter fails then that is the problem but unfortuantely its ok so Im at a loss to find the problem and am clutching at straws at the moment as im really totally lost on this one!

I could take the dashboard out and do all sorts of electrical testing but id rather get some help from Lotus experts (Well the Official Lotus garage are about as much use as a chocolate tampon so im reticent to even go near them) first than have to go the whole hog and do a complete wiring trace! I was hoping it might be a known issue!

Cheers

[GARY1958]

On a completely different car (Audi 80) i had exactly the same and it was the Ignition switch, as in the part that clips on behind the key slot. PITA to change too.

good luck

[alanmoss]

On my car the ignition switch works as follows.

First position (P1) - ancillaries on e.g. radio
Second position P2) - ignition on
Third position (P3) - operate starter

If the engine is running (P2) and I switch it back to P1 the engine stops, as it is supposed to, and then to come back to P0 there is a release button to avoid accidental removel.

Hope this helps.

[omendata]

4f743eCan anyone tell me the voltages that are supposed to be at the coil?

There are 4 wires

One measures 12v or thereabouts
One registers i think it was 1.25v which seems a bit odd!

One is a ground - earth
The other i presume is an earth as well although is seems to be a floating connection as it registers as not having a voltage and neither an earth either so presumably it is connected to some switching mechanism?

On my xflow engine there are only two wires - so what are the extra two for on the Lotus?

Its a real pain without the manual!

[Tanz]

Sorry but i'm confussed.

You state that it won't run in position 1 but the engine turns over ant starts in positiion 2.

The sequence is as alanmoss says..

If the engine runs at all then surely the coil and ignition amp must be ok. They either work or don't. The fault must be with the switch. Have you got the 3 positions that alanmoss lists?

[omendata]

Sorry let me clarify

The top switch setting is II - Ie to start the car which i guess translates to the III that you are referring to - starter motor ignition
Once a car is started the ignition key drops back to position I
However if the key is kept at position II the engine runs fine!

There is no position III marked.

0,I,II

Surely it cant be as simple as the switch - Its been into two garages and they cant figure it out!

The last garage called out an electrician and he said it was the ignition amplifier although he wasnt 100% certain - duh - My father got so fed up with the runaround , the fact that our beloved excel was lying in the rain and rapidly filling up with water and waiting on them ordering a new ignition amp (4 weeks apparently) that he took the car back from the garage with his spare set of keys.

[Markexel]

If its running in position 3{starter motor still running as well}then stalls when u let go of the key{pos 2} i would say thats theres nothing wrong with any of the ignition componants ,uv actually got a spark

Id say that the switch is at fault or u haveing a wirein problem

Cant be much of a garage or auto electrician if they cant test the switch and the low tension side of things,after all these cars are no where near as complicated as modern cars

Its as if the low tension side is cutting when u let go of the key ,cuttin the ignition

Haveing red ur last post properly has the ignition barrel still got its spring going from pos 3{starter} back to 2? , if it hasnt u might be turning the key back to pos 1 without realiseing cutting the ignition as its supposed to do

If the key is going from pos 3 back to 1{on the spring} then its got to be the switch thats at fault it should go back to 2

Either that or the wires to the ignition barrel are the wrong way round

Mark

[chrisw2811]

Maybe I'm missing something here, but if the key is left in the starter position (P3 of Alan's email), isn't the starter motor still engaged and thus turning over the engine? The only way I know to disengage the starter is to let the switch drop to position P2, at which point it seems that omendata's engine stops. Sounds to me as though the engine turns over OK but doesn't fire, but as I said, maybe I'm overlooking something

[omendata]

Well as everyone seems to agree its the ignition barrel ill have a go at the weekend after i install the new amp and try and figure out how its all wired together.

The starter motor wont be engaged after primary ignition and startup as it is probably of the pr-engaged type and once the engine starts the barrel releases from the flywheel i would presume!

If someone can tell me the where the extra wires on the coil go then we may get somewhere - do they go to the ignition barrel position I ?
Does the Lotus have some strange wiring configuration?

The fact is the car was working normally until the coil was replaced!
So looking at it logically id say something has blown - a wire or relay etc
All fuses have been checked and are ok!

I do understand the frustration but im telling it as it is!
This saga has been going on for 2 months now and yes the electrician is a professional hired by the last garage!

I kinda think Markexel is on the right track but the spring feels ok
Bearing in mind i am working from older looms doesnt position 2 and 3 share the same +ve with position 3 having an extra output to the starter relay? So if it was falling back somehow to position 1 this would explain the no power to the ignition amp?

With the ignition key dropping back and cutting the engine out however there is still a voltage of 12v and 1.25v at both coil connections so to me this rules out the ignition barrel!

Its all getting very complex where it shouldnt really need to be as Mark has pointed out it shouldnt be rocket science but it seems to be!

Ill fix it eventually if it kills me!

[Markexel]

The extra wires on the coil are probably for the rev counter.Was the coil replaced with one thats designed for electronic ignition?

Was it wired back up the same?

When u let go of the starter what posision does the key go back to?

Have u got a spark when the engine is cranking?

[chrisw2811]

Hi Omendata. Sorry, more questions. How does the starter motor disengage if the key has to stay all the way over? Have you checked for a spark while cranking the engine? Have you swapped back the coil that your father removed? If you have done these, swapping the ignition amplifier seems the next logical step. Good luck.