Help with Window Winder parts

[snafu]

I require to get hold of a replacement motor for one of the electric windows on my 89 Excel SE.

Has anyone any idea who was the manufacturer of the motor and if at all possible, what other cars used this identical motor and lift system.

[ttedj]

http://www.lotusexcel.net/phpbb/viewtop ... ilit=delco

I have a later car 89 on with earlier motors.

Ted

[snafu]

Took the door panel off and removed the motor from the mechanism. The window could now slide up and down but near the bottom the window jams. I have tries loosening the frame mounting bolts, lubricating the runners with silicon but it is still not sliding nicely on the lower section.

I cleaned out the motor and reassembled it. I noticed that there are no washers or spacers on the motor when mounting to the gears and once the two screws were tightened up and the top screw adjusted to take up slack, the motor turned but with a terrible screeching noise. Slackening off one screw I could find a point where the motor ran well, but their is no way to hold the motor in that position. Am I missing some washers or spacers between the motor and the gears. Also, no name on the motor whatsoever. It is a silver colour so I am wondering if this is a Bosch unit or not.

[amarshall]

Took the door panel off and removed the motor from the mechanism. The window could now slide up and down but near the bottom the window jams. I have tries loosening the frame mounting bolts, lubricating the runners with silicon but it is still not sliding nicely on the lower section.

I cleaned out the motor and reassembled it. I noticed that there are no washers or spacers on the motor when mounting to the gears and once the two screws were tightened up and the top screw adjusted to take up slack, the motor turned but with a terrible screeching noise. Slackening off one screw I could find a point where the motor ran well, but their is no way to hold the motor in that position. Am I missing some washers or spacers between the motor and the gears. Also, no name on the motor whatsoever. It is a silver colour so I am wondering if this is a Bosch unit or not.

There should be a thin paper/rubber gasket between the motor body and the gear unit (a thin smear of instant gasket does a decent job of replacing it). There should also be an adjustment screw at the top of the gear unit (access from the top) which presses on the free end of the drive shaft - with the motor body fully tightened up, carefully adjust this until the window runs smoothly without stalling in any position. If the motor is held in place by just two short black screws and has two flat sides then it is probably the later Bosch unit.

[snafu]

I stripped the motor down a second time and I am sure that the bottom shaft of the armature should run in a bronze bearing. What I think has happened is that the shaft has seized in the bronze bearing and the whole bronze bearing is now spinning in the housing, and not very well.

The top screw I also removed and cleaned out, re greased and re assembled. The motor runs slowly and occasionally jumps off the plastic cog and I had to slacken off the top screw to get the motor released and then tighten it back up.

The motor has two screws holding it in place and they are the 6 pointed star drive. A small flat screwdriver fits in well. I have a replacement one for my old Merc. and that has similar screws holding it, so I think that it is the Bosch unit.

I will scour the s/h car parts places locally and see if I can find a replacement unit.

To replace the entire winder mechanism looks like quite a job. I will just hope that a replacement motor will fix the problem.

[ttedj]

If you can get hold of a full arm and motor, it is a very easy job to unbolt and slide out of the window channel to replace. You may find that the window frame needs loosening and moving slightly to allow the window to slide - it may well be a bit rotten/twisted. The window channel at the bottom of the glass has a habit of rotting and jamming against the door beam as well. Worth having a look at that whilst there.

Ted

[amarshall]

I stripped the motor down a second time and I am sure that the bottom shaft of the armature should run in a bronze bearing. What I think has happened is that the shaft has seized in the bronze bearing and the whole bronze bearing is now spinning in the housing, and not very well.

The top screw I also removed and cleaned out, re greased and re assembled. The motor runs slowly and occasionally jumps off the plastic cog and I had to slacken off the top screw to get the motor released and then tighten it back up.

The motor has two screws holding it in place and they are the 6 pointed star drive. A small flat screwdriver fits in well. I have a replacement one for my old Merc. and that has similar screws holding it, so I think that it is the Bosch unit.

That's the Bosch motor alright - a search on this forum will find a part number and some alternative donor vehicles.

The other common sources of trouble with these motors are the magnets (they come unglued from the housing) and the thermal cutout.

If you have a decent set of brushes in your old motor, I have one that "burnt out" at the top end (thermal cut out blew) but could be made serviceable again by swapping a few parts around, I think. Everything else on it looks fine and I did get it working with a cannibalised brush & cutout set that I made up for a motor on my car. It's yours if you cover the postage cost.

[snafu]

Thanks for the offer. I may take you up on it if I cannot find something locally.

I see you are in Darlington. I once had a girlfriend living in Corf and as my wheels at the time, a 1952 Hillman Husky, was off the road for accident repair, I hitch hiked up to Darlington and I think it was around midnight that I started walking to Corf. I cannot remember what time I got there, but oh boy, it was a long walk in pitch darkness. Just for info, I think that episode was in 1960 or 61 latest. possibly a bit before your time.

[snafu]

Yes, you were correct. The winder mechanism came out quite easily and I have it packed up in a backpack ready for the 2 hour bus trip down to a place called Mossel Bay to fetch the red Esprit tomorrow. On the way back I will stop of at George and take the mechanism around to various car strippers and just hope we can find a replacement.

I did manage to remove the motor shaft from the bronze carrier, but the inner worm keeps jumping off the cog and it is due to the worm drive shaft being slack. I think that the top bearing is now broken or faulty.

[snafu]

Still battling. I have looked at both the Jaguar motor and also the Range Rover and they are nothing like the ones in my Excel.

There are no markings on the motor case and mine has the brush holder visible at the junction with the gear drive. I think that it must be the AC Delco, not the Bosch.

If that is the case, any ideas which other cars used this type??

[BillB]

I had trouble with the drivers side and when I quizzed Mike taylor he reckoned there were 3 designs.
An early one, the one I had which didn't go on many cars and the later one. Aparrently they have different numbers of teeth on the gearbox to arm pinion so the whole assembly needs to be changed.

I finished up with the last design which is really strong and I suspect has over-current relays from the sound of it. The original one had a thermal overload which meant that you couldn't always get the window closed without it stopping and needing to cool down. The only downside is that the motor is bulkier and doesn't fit behind the original panel in the door - still waiting to get that sorted out but a piece of plastic sheet does the job for now.

As my car was first registered Jan 1990 I suspect you may have one of the short lived items?

A quick look on ebay suggests that parts from an 89 XJS would do the trick (but not the early type with the cylindrical motor) but I think you need to swap the sides over?

Regards
Bill

[amarshall]

A photograph or two would help.

[snafu]

Sorry but still battling to post pics. Unfortunately I do not have a 10 year old in the house to show me what to do.

I can email you a pic, no problem.

rwdavis@axxess.co.za

[fitz]

Did we manage to reach a solution with the symptom of the window slowing right down on the bottom 3rd of the movement. and getting a little stuck on the way back up. once its past the 1/3 way mark it speeds up all the way to the top.

Its a silver ac delco unit in a '87 car. I have checked the pivot etc and its well greased etc. The motor seems to struggle, when the pivot where it meets the drive sproket is at its point of least leverage - presumably this is where the motor has to work the hardest?