Excel wanted - newbie questions

[NigelP]

Hi Folks
I am finally looking to fulfil a very long held ambition to own a Lotus. I have previously been looking at M100 Elans but I am beginning to think an Excel might suit me better and be a bit more 'Lotusey' as tbh I am more drawn to the Chapman era cars. I have driven a friend's Elan +2 and loved it but these are now outside of my budget (of <£10k) and I would prefer something a bit more modern I could use 2-3 days a week all year round, so I think an Excel might fit the bill - although let me know if I am deluded here!

I would prefer a manual gearbox but otherwise have no strong preferences, although I would ideally like one as original as possible with a good history, preferably with some of the major jobs done. It would also need to be roadworthy as I don't have the space, resources or skills to undertake a full restoration.

A couple of questions that forum members might be able to help with. Door beams, without taking the door apart, how easy is it to spot if there are issues with these and would it be expected that most will have been sorted by now? I also understand that the window frames are an issue and aren't available but I am guessing corrosion here would be easy to spot? Are there any other Excel specific things to check? - (sorry that's three questions...).

I have been looking around for a few weeks now and there doesn't seem to be much for sale (or is this normal?). My current favourite is a gold SE offered on all the usual websites but the price looks a bit stiff at £12,495 (despite being dropped £500), especially as the dealer selling seems to have bought it last year at auction for £7,100!

Lastly, if anyone knows of a car coming up of sale in the next few months please let me know. I am based in Devon, which is a bit remote but would travel to view the right car.
Many thanks
Nigel

[AndyC]

Hi Nigel, and welcome.

Door window frames. They are now available, made by the original supplier. You can probably find them advertised on eBay.

Door beams, there are a mix of problems, so it can be difficult to initially spot which it is.
Hinges wear so that the circular hole become ovalised, this causes the door to drop. If you then lift the unsupported end of the door gently you should see the shaft of the hinge plus the nut move back to it's normal location. Not an awful job (the metal needs welding and drilling, you can get some that will have been re-done). Plus probably a new hinge shaft.

Beam starts to rust away from the tube that the shaft goes into. This may appear as a similar symptom (door drops) but when lifted at the unsupported end the shaft and nut don't move. That means precise welding or a replacement beam.
Another symptom (bit easier to spot) is that the tube stays put (doesn't rotate) but the door moved, this is well, shall we say very obvious as to what's wrong since you could end up with a door that isn't attached any more. Same replacement really.


Manual box is great, but so is the auto, so if it's the right car in every other sense then don't fail to consider it. I'm assuming your feet aren't over size 11, else you'll probably need the auto as the pedals are quite close.
M100 are great, different due to the FWD aspect, but never the less fantastic cars and really a Lotus, so perhaps better in bad weather for grip, but they don't come with a hard top so my preference also like yours is the Excel.

Happy hunting.

[MetBlue]

Hi Nigel
Elan v's Excel . Both great drives and both very much of Lotus DNA. Is the car going to be garaged? If not, an Excel at least gives you a chance of keeping water on the outside.

Door beams : Don't assume these have all been changed if a problem. There are plenty of cars out there having minimal use and unless the owner can do it themselves, the cost to repair by a specialist is high in comparison to car value ( approx £600 per door if I recall - probably plus VAT. As well as feeling underside of beam near hinge, try rotation the door around the long axis of the beam. Any twist you feel means a new beam.

Window frames : the real rot is inside the door. Can only be seen if you remove inner door card and sound panels.

Tony

[NigelP]

Thanks Tony. The car will be spending most of its time outside, so I guess that's another point to the Excel. The running costs, I would imagine, would be similar.

I had assumed the window frame rot would be in the visible part of the quarter light, so thanks for this info. It might be best to assume that if it hasn't been done the frame will need doing at some point.

Just need to find a few cars to view...

Many thanks

Nigel

[Alan_M]

Welcome.
I actually have both an M100 and an Excel SE. Both excellent cars in their own rights and full of Lotus DNA, but I would say the Excel has more character and you feel more connected to the car. The Elan is much more modern feeling and very sure footed in the wet being able to push to the limit safely (as with most FWD cars).

Window frame availability - this is not guaranteed, the person that has been having them made has said there may not be anymore.

In terms of cost to run the Elan is more fuel friendly specially if a S2 with closed loop fuelling. The Excel
Is an easier DIY car for maintenance.

Parts availability - both are generally good, but both have parts that live next to the unicorn dust.

As a day to day car throughout the year you will need to sort something to keep the rain out of the Elan - they leaked from new

As said, do not assume beams or frames have been done - I’m just doing mine now. The worst rust is often just inside the door skin at the front - there is foam there to prevent drafts which just holds the water.

Why not let us know where you are based and maybe someone will offer to walk you around an Excel.

[richardw]

The only other thing I’d add is paintwork. If you don’t have the facilities or skill to do this yourself, then a respray can run to £5k+ easily. Lacquer peeling is a common problem and poor damage repair is another. I think the same caveat applies to both cars.

Cheers, Richard

[rbgosling]

Hi Nigel,

Definitely a good decision to jump into Lotus ownership! Your budget of <£10 should be sufficient to get an Excel that is reasonably tidy and reliable, but maybe not immaculate. Which cannot be said of any other Lotus! I paid just £3,200 for mine, but that was nearly 11 years ago and prices have risen! There are only c. 200 on the road these days, and plenty of us keep our cars for a long time, so at any one time there aren't many for sale, so you may need to have a little patience waiting for the right car at the right price. I travelled from Aberdeen to Suffolk to get mine.

Using it as a regular / everyday driver is totally possible, there are several owners here who do so. My Excel is my only car (although I do have access to my wife's Jag X-Type), and I use it to drive to work every day - or at least I did until I had to work from home since last March... Supermarket trips, weekend jaunts, holidays, car shows, it gets used for it all. Well, except trips to the dump. It is far more reliable than Lotus' reputation would have you believe. The engine lasted until 175k before I gave it a rebuild 4 years ago, and I rebuilt the gearbox @ 185k in the shutdown last summer. So the parts do last well if you give them the necessary regular care and servicing.

For such a rare car the parts supply is actually very good. Some mechanical and trim bits are Toyota, which helps. Lotusbits specialise mainly in 900-series engined cars (Excel, Eclat, Elite, Esprit and the odd Jensen Healey) and supply most parts, they also strip old cars so have a large supply of used parts. There's also SJ Sportscars and Paul Matty, who supply most new parts. So that isn't really a concern.

Good luck finding the right car, and welcome to our group!

[rbgosling]

A month ago this car was posted as being for sale on this site. No price shown, and it may well have been sold, but could be worth dropping him a line?

[NigelP]

Dear all
Thanks for your excellent advice (my reply to Andy seemed to get lost) but I am a particularly grateful for the notes on things to watch out for and the detail on the door beams is invaluable. I have the Matthew Vale book but it doesn't go into too much detail.

It's also good to know that I am not totally crazy expecting to use it as an everyday car (although I do have my wife's Mini as back up).

It's also great to know that there are friendly knowledgeable people out there happy to help!

While I still haven't managed to find a car to view yet, I do feel like I am at last on the way to Lotus ownership. Not sure sure if I mentioned it but I am based in mid Devon (about 5 miles away from SJ Sportcars) and also not too far from South West Lotus so there are specialists nearby even if there don't seem to be that many Lotus cars on the roads down here.
Best wishes
Nigel

[pompey ice]

Hi Nigel and welcome ,I have a car that ticks a lot of your boxes if you can PM your Email address can send a few pictures
I am not to far from you in Portsmouth
Cheers Ian

[NigelP]

PM sent.

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[richardw]

This looks a nice one:

https://www.gumtree.com/p/cars-vans-mot ... ios_social

[NigelP]

Thanks Richard. Yes, I have had my eye on this one. Although it's a bit out of my budget I would have gone and had a look had it been closer to home. It was sold at auction less than a year ago for £7,100 https://themarket.co.uk/en/listings/lot ... f9fdf43796 which seems very low. There are a couple of hundred pictures, one of which shows the near side door hinge which looks a bit odd to my (very) non-expert eyes so I did wonder about the door beams. The dealer who has certainly put a hefty mark-up on it doesn't seem to have done any work to the car and it is still sitting on its 2012 tyres which would need changing,

[MetBlue]

Nigel
Just scanned through the bulk photos.
One of the later pictures (amongst the paper work) shows rust bubbles on a window frame. But window frames won't affect the usability of the car in the same way a door beam will.
I agree the hinge photos look slightly odd, but I think they simply suggest they are dirty and have not been disturbed for a very long while, which means the beams are likely original.
There's also a picture of a Clarion radio cassette which could be the right vintage to be original. Clarion 950 and 920 was fitted from My 87 onwards, Blaupunkt prior. Original stereos can be quite sought after.
My earlier post on beams can be read wrong - torsion on twisting along the axis of the beam is BAD thing.
IMO, based on the photos, this was OK value at £7k - just, but is way overpriced now.
Tony

[Hawaiis0]

Just found a guy in Ireland with 2 excels for sale.

https://www.facebook.com/AnyThingClassicNorthernIreland