excel on piston heads

[MalcolmH]

By the way... bit cheeky, but a question for Simpatico and Shaun;

Simpatico, you say you'd have bought the grey low-miler "in a second" at that kind of price if it hadn't been LHD. And Shaun, you said "I'd" (in other words "I would ") definitely consider"... as if it were a hypothetical situation. But this isn't hypothetical - the 20,000-mile Excel is for sale, it's RHD, and from what Alan says, is most likely in excellent order.

So my question is - are either of you definitely interested in it? Or ready to buy it in a second?

If you are, fair enough. But I suspect the reality is you both already have fairly well-sorted cars - that you've put copious levels of blood, sweat, tears and money into - so won't be picking the phone up anytime soon to make an offer for it.

Like I say, a bit cheeky - so forgive me. But just trying to underline that we guys on here are probably the main target market for an example like this 20k-miler. But whilst we're all happy to discuss it, if none of us are actually calling-up the dealer to snatch their hands off and buy it... is there in fact a market for it?

[shaunw]

By the way... bit cheeky, but a question for Simpatico and Shaun;

Simpatico, you say you'd have bought the grey low-miler "in a second" at that kind of price if it hadn't been LHD. And Shaun, you said "I'd" (in other words "I would ") definitely consider"... as if it were a hypothetical situation. But this isn't hypothetical - the 20,000-mile Excel is for sale, it's RHD, and from what Alan says, is most likely in excellent order.

So my question is - are either of you definitely interested in it? Or ready to buy it in a second?

If you are, fair enough. But I suspect the reality is you both already have fairly well-sorted cars - that you've put copious levels of blood, sweat, tears and money into - so won't be picking the phone up anytime soon to make an offer for it.

Like I say, a bit cheeky - so forgive me. But just trying to underline that we guys on here are probably the main target market for an example like this 20k-miler. But whilst we're all happy to discuss it, if none of us are actually calling-up the dealer to snatch their hands off and buy it... is there in fact a market for it?

HaHa, I see your point! And you are right in many ways. For starters I'd have to drive it and see if it was as good as the mileage and history suggest. When I bought my car it had been in the same family for 14 years and had 78k FSH (so still quite low mileage compared to some) It was considered by the owner (and some on the forum) to be one of the best examples left. I'm sure many people would have driven my car as it was when I bought it and found nothing to complain about. However, I'm a fussy bugger and having owned a very low mileage example, I found the difference in driving quality was significant. I have spent the last two and a half years and a fair sum of money striving to make it drive like my old one. By the time I'm finished I will have spent at least 12k, probably more including the purchase price. So even at 78k with FSH, restoration of parts like brakes, steering, gearbox detent springs, clutch, and attention to interior rattles, door seals, and countless other minor things may be required if you want to make it drive as 'tight' as a new one. Obviously my experience is only based on the example I bought.
Still hypothetical I know, but If I'd come across an extremely low mileage car with an impeccable history etc before I bought mine I would have bought it assuming it checked out. My reasoning would have been that I would not be buying to make profit and 12k for a 'like new' Lotus Excel (assuming immaculate paint / interior, time based service history etc) that I would be able to enjoy for many years is still amazing value. To be honest that's why I'm willing to spend the money on mine, once you know what a totally sorted Excel drives like there is nothing to touch it for anywhere near 12k. Like you rightly say though, the problem is so few people outside this forum realise that.

Sorry, I've waffled on a bit!

Shaun

[MalcolmH]

Thanks for such a detailed response, Shaun... and for taking my question in the good spirit it was intended!!!! Phew....

It sounds as though your car is far more fettled - and would be a better buy for someone (if it were for sale!) - than the 20k-miler. Alan Moss seems to know his stuff, so I'm sure the £12k one is in extraordinarily good nick. But like most of our cars it's still 20-odd years old, so as you say to warrant a significant price the rest of the car has to be every bit as good as the low mileage implies.

It definitely wouldn't be my cup of tea... I'm a 'most flash and thrash for the least cash' man. But I'd love to see an Excel (that was really worth the money) go for twelve grand. It could only help raise the value of most of our cars.

[Excel NT]

I have been tracking Excel sales on and off since 2003 and there are clear patterns and value points, I haven't seen one advertised for more than £12k in that time. The highest priced are obviously with the dealers but the quality (per members reviews) is not always what you would expect. Private sales have peaked at £8k-9K asking price but I suspect that the deal is done for less. There have been some good cars sold in the last 2-3 years between £5k-£7k but by the same token there have been sales of cars that are only £500 of effort away from these at £3k-4k. The best examples at top prices have been on sale by PM and on many occasions the same cars have come back in subsequent years. In the last two years there has been a flow of 1-2 owner cars with low mileage but still not breaking £6k.

We of course are 'expert' buyers and assuming you are sitting with a sound car worth £5k you can't see £7k more worth in a 1987 SE with only 20k miles on it. If you want a sports car and have a £10k-£12k budget burning a hole in your pocket and fall in love with an Excel you might consider it and feel delighted to have haggled it down to £10,750. You would really need to want an Excel though because if you look at what else you could get for the money it starts to look less like a good deal.

So this suggests a value of £6k-7k plus the premium you put on 20k mileage. To someone who wants to say my car is special because it only has 20k on it this would be more than to me who considers suspension/brakes/cooling systems as consumables and would only attach a value to the potential life in the engine and box.

NB there are currently at least 18 Excels for sale just now.

Here are some current examples.

1991 H Grand Prix White (Monaco me thinks) 43k Clutch and belts recently done FSH £8k. So 4yrs newer later specs double mileage £4k less

1991 H Celebration 80k ish sorted by Lotusbits £6250

1992 K Blue Aqua metallic 60k Cambelt C serv recent one of the last £5600 So 5yrs newer triple mileage £6k less

1992 K2 EXL Blue 69k £8950 top private price for a top late car.

and recent

1989 G Pacific 40k £3495 !!
1992 J22 LOT Red Celeb 72k £n\d forum members car (Current Value £8-9k)
1992 K Silk Red 62k £5750 10 th last
1991 J Red Celebration 100k rebuilt at 80k no. 3106 last Red Celeb £5550

As interesting as I clearly find this it is all a bit academic. For example would OGL swap his near 150k miler Monaco White for the 43k one above? And we haven't even factored in colour, there are those who couldn't see past Pacific Blue or calypso Red.

Then there is the Ethel factor where market value is irrelevant to producing the Excel desired.

[Simpatico]

Hi Malcolm. No I won't be picking up the phone as it isn't the grey SA I said I would buy. That was (for me at least) a more interesting colour scheme, nicer wheels, newer, lower mileage, and an automatic which made it rather unique. But it didn't matter how long I mulled it over LHD killed it unless I was rich and had a holiday home in France (dreams a little dreamy dream)

[MalcolmH]

Thanks, Simpatico - and for not punching me!!! It helps keep the movie-star looks intact a bit longer. Even though they're more Shrek than Clooney!

Think I remember the grey one... was it Belgium or somewhere it was found, do I recall? Must admit my first 'recent' Excel (after a near 20-year gap) was an SA. Bought at the time as the nicest available within my limited budget (I'd known they'd made autos, but hadn't realised quite how few) but performance wise I found it little different to how I'd remembered the manual cars. And it sounded fantastic! Much rortier than my two subsequent manuals. Though I did miss the usual more to do with my hands & feet on the twisty bits!

[shaunw]

Where is K2 EXL listed for sale? I promised myself I'd look at that if it ever came up for sale.

Shaun

[MalcolmH]

Excel NT - apart from the fact that (like most of us on here) you clearly need to get out more! - that's one hell of an impressive chunk of information.

Huge salute to that man!!!!!!!!!!

[MalcolmH]

Shaun, I think K2 EXL was on Car & Classic (offered by Paul Matty Sports Cars). However it's been removed from Car & Classic now.

Says 'sold or otherwise', but might be worth still looking on Paul Matty?

[alanmoss]

K2 EXL has been sold, I understand.

I did say in my original post on this topic that I was not sure about the price on the Red SE.
Peter Smith sold it for £8750 about 18 months ago.
It would be nice to see good examples fetching £12K which would still be a bargain when you see the prices paid for some quite tatty Esprits.
But practicality, etc., do not have an advantage over the name.

[MalcolmH]

An interesting topic though, Alan, which has prompted discussion on here. So thanks - from me, anyway - for posting it.

[Simpatico]

I recall reading the grey SA was found in Japan, which if true is odd as they are RHD over there?? It was punted around a few dealerss (UK Sportscars, South West Lotus Centre, not sure about Matty) at varying prices. I can't recall the last advertised price but £11k rings a bell. Or was it 11000 miles??

Whatever, the metallic grey over black leather colour scheme and facelifted body gave it a modern contemporary look that only the last few cars have. The reds and whites with creamy interiors are a bit too "80s" for my taste, but each to their own

IF Matty is selling Excels that's good news for current owners as he always leads the way in pricing

[MalcolmH]

I'd actually gone off red as a car colour till I got back into Excels. But what you say is apt - my Elite, two Excels and Esprit - all owned (but not at the same time!) between 1984 & 1991 - were all Calypso with Magnolia!! Or as close to Magnolia as the earlier cars got...

That metallic grey with black leather that was for sale privately a few months ago (West Country, Wales?) did catch my interest, though. The overload of wood veneer the guy had fitted put me off a bit, though the general effect - in the photos at least - was still impressive.

That colour combo always makes me think of 60's Astons. But for me personally, is a bit too discreet for the statement I like my 'big' Lotus to make!

[don.hasi]

1992 K Silk Red 62k £5750 10 th last.

Where have you seen this fabulous looking car?


I have a huge data summary as well over the last 3-4 years. Maybe we should reanimate a common database?

[Excel NT]

The Grey SA was advertised in Nov 2011 by UK Sports cars at £14995 with 5000miles 'discovered' in a collection in Japan

K2 EXL was advertised 24th Oct and gone shortly after not surprising due to the condition it is not on PM showroom

The 1992 K silk red was K223 RJU £5,750 Advertised in Nov 12 there are at least two members 1992 Silk Reds K944VPK (in a recent magazine article) and K765 ABV which was Hodders all look in good condition and it is a classy colour.

I have probably got pictures of about 1000 different Excels out of 2156 built and most of the 1991 1992 manufactured 56 and 15. These range from thumbnails to owners pride and joy shots. I also did a list for the SA which was over forty but since then there have been others so it is still a small number but maybe not as small as thought.