The Lotus Grand Tourers

crofty,
exactly.
regards alan

Updated the blog:
danslotusproject.blogspot.co.uk

There's more to read on there, but I'd really appreciate some sage advice on my ongoing clutch difficulties. Apologies if I'm going over old ground. Also, what I thought was the clutch arm helper spring, wasn't and the car's never had one, contrary to a previous post.

So here's an extract:



The clutch release arm. This is where my problem seems to be. It's jammed solid I think. A bit of wobbling and it became very loose, now I seem to have managed to jiggle it back into place You can see the two bolts that hold the slave cylinder in place. There's also sometimes a clutch helper spring on the back of the arm, though mine doesn't have one and I'm informed it never had one, so presumably it's not *needed* if the car drove round fine before.



When attached to the car and pushing the clutch pedal, the slave cylinder moved very little. I thought I'd experiment pushing the master cylinder through its maximum stroke with my hand (eliminating the pedal assembly - more on that later)



At rest - 30mm out.




After one push - another 17mm out.



After a second push (not resetting between) - a further 17mm out.

One thing I notice is that pushing through the full stroke of the master cylinder is approx. 40mm.
For obvious reasons the clutch pedal only has a limited amount of travel. You can't push it forever, the floor gets in the way!

The arm of my master cylinder isn't long enough really, it's on the last couple of threads as it is, and you have to bring the pedal down from the top stop to get it to attach. So I think I'm only using about 3/4 of the available pedal travel, as the first 1/4 is taken up in bringing the "start" position down to meet the end of the Master cylinder actuation arm. I'm sure that can't be helping matters, so I'm going to make a longer clevis/fork section to bring the pedal arm up to meet the pedal at the very top of the travel, giving me the full stroke.

Also, I've put a new clutch pedal return spring on and it's not returning the pedal back up under its own strength. Presumably the returning clutch spring/arm/slave/master cylinder combo will help with the rest of the pushing?


I've decided I'm going to mount a bottle jack horizontally under the car, pushing on the arm instead of the slave cylinder and see if I can get the arm to move 17mm (presumably this is the correct amount going by my "experiments"). After that, I'm going to make my longer clevis and mount that, and double extra mega check that the system is bled. Then it's up on blocks, start in gear, foot full on the clutch and dive on the brakes. Hopefully it'll free off and I don't have to take the engine & box out. If it keep stalling the engine after a couple of tries, then it looks like I'm all out of luck.

When I changed the clutch master cyclinder for a new one, I also noticed that the clevis / arm wasn't as long as the original version. It still functions fine though but the pedal is closer to the floor and will go all the way to the floor when pressed.

The clutch "helper" spring is just to ensure the release bearing is in constant contact with the clutch fingers.

Be careful with a bottle jack as the clutch fork can be quite fragile if pushed too hard. Stories on toyota forums of the fork cracking where it pivots on the ball.

Engine out job isn't horrendous and there are so many things you can then get at to check.

Hope you have some success with the brake method first though.

Ted

If your clutch is stuck on - don't give up too readily. 15-20 minutes of perseverance is a lot quicker than lifting out an engine.

Mine had stuck after 9 years sitting in the garage, and it re-stuck when I left it for a further 3 months over the winter after initialy not using it much.

I jacked it up, started it in gear - depressed the clutch and used the handbrake rather than the footbrake to crack it free. It took quite a bit of perseverance on both occasions (more than 5 minutes). You will know when its gone, as the speedo will suddenly drop to zero. I found 2nd gear works best.

good luck.

IT WORKS! IT WORKS! IT BLOODY WORKS!

Well, not first time. The longer bracket I made was first too long, then bent all out of shape. So a very frustrating day. Master cylinder was off, talk was had of trying to extend or replace the shaft and all sorts.

My father-in-law (not married yet, but you know what I mean) made another clevis out of two bits of something he had lying around and gave it a bash himself - then surprised me with a functioning clutch when I went over yesterday. Happy times. Can't take all the credit, but it was my idea at least!

I've found a pair of cheap NOS back boxes on ebay and tomorrow I'll be spending a lot of time (and money ) with SJ and Lotusbits.

Happy times

Bugger. Backboxes were either damaged or sold out

I've got a very similar problem on my Excel. The clutch master cylinder was seized so I replaced that. The slave cylinder appeas to be free so I have left that for now. I bled it through and when I press the pedal it just feels solid, like you would bend the pedal if you pressed it hard. Was it just extending the master cylinder pushrod that fixed your problem?
I haven't really got anywhere safe to drive it in gear but I might try jacking up the rear and applying the brakes. I am just not sure if this will solve my problem as it feels like the mechanism isn't moving at all.

Hi Disco Stew, sorry about the late reply, not been on the forum for a bit. Regarding the clutch: It's worth taking the slave off and checking that it IS free IMO -it's 2 x 14mm bolts so a fairly quick job. Apparently it's the slave that normally goes rather than the master. I did consider maneoueuvouoeurvering a bottle jack in it's place and pushing on the arm with that, but didn't in the end.
Then yeah, made a longer forked piece for the clutch, meaning that the pedal would definitely use up ALL it's travel back up to the stop. It was about an extra 10-12mm longer compared to the original.
I was also going to try taking the master cylinder off (with everything else back in place) and squeezing it that way, but didn't have a vice big enough.

Oh, and thanks to Angus for the exhaust - I'll get it cleaned up and installed

I'm still here (despite the username change).

Work on the car stalled for a few years, or was only sporadic. My wife got him transported from her parents as a 40th birthday present (I started this when I was 28! where did that time go?) so now he's at my house and I've made more progress in the last week than in the previous 2-3 years. Being able to do a couple of hours work every 3-6 months while he was doing no good. At best it was slowing the deterioration. Just being able to pop out for 10 mins of an evening to do "that quick job" is already paying dividends.

Closest it got to the road, about a year or two ago was starting it in 1st with a stuck clutch and/or bent pedal box and pootling up the in-law's drive on tickover (wouldn't rev higher). But he's still pretty comprehensively buggered. Though that is only temporary.

Recent jobs completed -
Temporarily remove LH bonnet latch until I can sort the cable release
Bonnet on
Replace bumper mount bolts (removed when I was playing with a system to tow him)
Headlights freed up again.
Headlights and surrounds replaced (had to invent a workaround for missing adjusters)
Clutch slave cylinder re-mounted
New battery/fuel and he seems to start and run a lot better
Replace air intake cover

Next job is to remove the master cylinder, clamp it in a g-clamp and try to free off the clutch that way. Then it's pedal box out, which I'm not looking forward to.

I'm also going to put various bits of trim and assorted removed parts back. Even if I have to take them off again I can concentrate on one job at a time rather than a million half-finished ones.

Current list of jobs, which will grow:

Priority Job Done
1 New battery y
2 Replace bumper mount bolts y
3 Check headlight pods y
4 Put headlights back in y
5 Make plastic insert for headlight aim y
6 Fix bonnet latch
7 Fit bonnet (1 lock if needs be) y
8 Un-bend pedal box (can't escape it!)
9 Up on stands
10 Clutch hydraulics
11 Bleed brakes
12 Free off clutch
13 Bonnet off again
14 Cambelt service inc tensioner
15 New V belts
16 Cam cover gaskets
17 Oil change
18 Flush radiator & new coolant
19 New fuel F piece (if poss)
20 Clean & rebuild carbs
21 Gearbox oil change
22 Diff oil change
23 New brakes front
24 New gaiters on steering rack
25 New brakes rear
26 Bleed brakes again
27 Check door electrics
28 Passenger door lock
29 Check door mirrors
30 Upside down window switch?
31 Check all lights
32 Carpets in
33 under dash trim on
34 Refit door cards
35 Steering wheel trim on
36 Grease door mechanisms y
37 Steering wheel back on
38 Seats back in
39 New tyres
40 New suspension rear
41 New fuel hoses round tank (possibly)
42 Headlining
43 Dash trim
44 respray (one day!)

Welcome back! And good for you for getting stuck back in, the renewed enthusiasm is great to see. Stick with it, and it will pay off soon enough.

And of course we need more photos!

Well done on re-starting your project. Life just gets in the way sometimes!

Pete

As arrived








After a wash and the bonnet placed on (now actually attached, but I haven't taken any photos of that yet)

The other night I emptied out the boot and back of the car all the assorted crap/various pieces of Lotus and got it into the shed, even hoovered up the interior (for whatever that's worth, given that it's mostly knackered/needs re-trimming). Then I got the boot carpets in, battery cover on, driver's door cars temporarily/loosely attached and re-tested some of the electrics.
Last night I was busy doing B&Q/House things, but I did manage to get under it to look at the exhaust I fitted a few years ago (thank you Angus!). It's not very well clamped together betwixt y-piece and rear pipe from when I did it originally and is blowing, so I'll get under it this weekend with some sealant and spanners and re-clamp them.

The interior looks like it might clean up nicely.

Pete