Front Brakes

[Markexel]

Took car for mot today after being on the drive for the last 14 months while i did bits and bobs .Anway it passed ,but cant help noticeing how Cr*p the brakes are they are practicly none exsistent!
It used to be my everyday transport ,but haveing used a 12 year old laguna for the last 14 months cant help noticeing how useless they are compared to a modern car.They were probably useless when it was my only transport but never noticed!, u get used to these things

What im gettin at is there a cheap upgrade that gives much better bite?
Thanks Mark

[brian s]

try fitting a cheap set of pads, they tend to be softer than the lotus items and so don`t glaze over as much , not a perfect solution but it improved the braking on my excel

[Skeggy]

Markexel,

Doubt you need to upgrade - my brakes (86se) are very good* - just get the ones you have working properly.

If the car has been stood then there could be many problems, stuck pistons, pads gone off, rust , bad fluid, etc.

Would agree with the cheap pads/softer option. Soft pads don't need warming up as much but obviously don't last as long.

Kind regards,
Steve
*Apart from the 'long' pedal which I've still not adjusted

[Steve C]

Brakes have moved on in the last 20 years, the Excel brakes may have been ok in their day, but step out of something modern and they feel pretty disappointing (to me anyway). I can't believe they used the same front discs on the Esprit SE turbo!

Ok, the last Esprits with AP brakes are about as good as it gets, but my old company BMW 330d had very impressive brakes too ... even a standard mondeo has 300mm discs these days (although strangely they feel a little wooden).

Ultimately most brake setups will lock the wheels if you stamp on the pedal hard enough, what I want is a progressive and predictable braking setup on which I know exactly how hard I can (and need) to push the pedal to be on that point of almost locking up. My braking system was standard and in perfect working order, all discs had been replaced, new pads, rebuilt calipers, fresh fluid etc... it just wasn't enough!

Soon after I bought the Excel, I had the brakes fade on the second lap at Goodwood - and it had a C service with fluid change only a few months earlier (at a garage I trust) - it didn't like the 115->50 slow down before the chicane much at all! The Esprit V8 (demo) I drove the same day (with approx 300mm discs all round and brembo calipers) was hitting 140 and braking to 50 at the same point with no problems.

I guess ultimately it's down to personal preference, but I think the upgrade was money well spent and I wish I'd done it nearly 10 years ago when I bought the car!

[Markexel]

Ok thanks ,but what di u think about the servo it seems as if thats not upto much as u have to really stand on the pedal.
Is there a modern alternative?
In the time i have had the car its had new discs/pads and front caliper overhauled with new seals{rear has had new pads}.Its even had an old stock unused servo fitted which i got off Ebay
Thanks mark

[Steve C]

Getting a standard servo/master cylinder for the Bendix equipped cars is hard enough ... I haven't tried grafting on a different servo but if it could be done it may increase initial bite. Unfortunately, it wont do anything for the heat handling capacity of the brakes.

I think a lot of modern servos have a larger diameter ... is there enough space under the bonnet for anything larger? It's raining here so I'm not looking now!

[Markexel]

Brake fade has never been a problem it only gets used on the road its the initial bite it could do with more of!
As for servo clearence no theres next to no room for a bigger modern servo
Mark

[Steve C]

Brake fade has never been a problem it only gets used on the road its the initial bite it could do with more of!
As for servo clearence no theres next to no room for a bigger modern servo
Mark

In that case, it's definitely worth trying a set of standard soft pads - my local motor factors sell AP lockheed pads and they improved bite from cold dramatically over Hawk Fast Road pads on my larger disk setup, and also improved the initial bite on a Ford Galaxy over the previous (probably Ford) pads.

Let us know how you get on ...

ps. If anyone wants a part worn set of green-stuff pads (front) to try, let me know before they go in the bin! I thought they were horrible from cold but might be ok for mild track work ... I nearly rammed someone because they had no bite from cold on one occasion.

[Steve C]

*Apart from the 'long' pedal which I've still not adjusted

I adjusted this last night after bleeding the brakes ... I couldn't find anything in the manual about setting the pushrod length so adjusted it until most of the play had gone. The lock-nut was loose on my car so it seemd the rod had been gradually getting shorter over time.

It's much better with the bite further up on the travel, heel 'n toe may be possible now whereas it was impossible before!

Definitely worth doing, and only took 10 mins ... just don't overdo it so that the brakes bind!

[Redexcel]

My 2p worth.
I drove my car to and from the MOT yesterday for the first time in 2 years (yes, I know). The (bog standard) brakes felt fine, and I'm used to driving a modern(ish) car everyday.

[Steve C]

My 2p worth.
I drove my car to and from the MOT yesterday for the first time in 2 years (yes, I know). The (bog standard) brakes felt fine, and I'm used to driving a modern(ish) car everyday.

I think a lot of this is subjective/what you are used to ... a friend had a bump in his Honda Prelude a few years ago and they gave him a Corsa to drive around in. When he got the Prelude back he was convinced the brakes were knackered. I tried it and they felt fine compared to the Excel ... a week later he'd forgotten all about it!

When jumping into the wifes mondeo, the pedal on that now feels a little dead, but only because my Excel brakes are much better - it used to be the other way round!

The first step is definitely to make sure all caliper pistons & slide bolts are free, clean up the disc surface and try a new set of pads .. after that it costs! I've had a slide bolt sieze up on a caliper when my car was off the road for a year but never any problems with the pistons themselves although I did tend to dismantle and re-seal them if any of the boots started to look dodgy.

[83Excel]

[quote="Steve C"]

I think a lot of this is subjective/what you are used to ...

Too right, my little brother is a driving instructor and I let him loose on mine, he drove it 200 yards and very nearly stuck it into the wall of a bridge!

Of course it's my fault for not forewarniing him

[Redexcel]

I think a lot of this is subjective/what you are used to ...

Too right, my little brother is a driving instructor and I let him loose on mine, he drove it 200 yards and very nearly stuck it into the wall of a bridge!

Of course it's my fault for not forewarniing him

Ah, if he's an instructor, he's only used to having pedals, not a steering wheel as well.

[Skeggy]

*Apart from the 'long' pedal which I've still not adjusted

.........

Definitely worth doing, and only took 10 mins ... ...

Steve C,

It's not the time it's the upside down in the footwell trying to keep my glasses on and not get cramp that has stopped me so far. But I also blame the weather!

Thanks to everyone who agreed with me that the standard brakes are fine when working right but managed it put it into better words than I did

[dukeofpeckham]

Just had a call from my wife who had a scare whilst driving our 87 Excel - she says the car was pulling to the right under braking - then lost most of the braking power. She says it seems to be stopping OK now - will have a look when I get home from work but does anyone have any ideas?

I'm assuming there are some bubbles in the cables somewhere... and brakes are engaging on one side only, or unevenly.

Car was C-serviced in December with a clean bill of health except a small power steering leak.